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    M6X swap boosterless brake setup

    I've had a few people ask me what parts I used on my boosterless brake setup for my M62 swap, so I figured I'd write something.

    I've heard from a couple different people that the Massive Booster Delete will not work well. I haven't tried it myself, but even with this setup with dual brake masters, I can imagine why it wouldn't.

    All of this information can be found on Garagistic's website at
    Garagistic is your one-stop source to performance BMW parts. From Grip, street, show or drift, we got the parts your BMW needs. We carry BMW parts for your E30, E36, E46, E82, E92 and much more!


    For the people not looking to research, here is the parts list I used.

    -Wilwood Pedal Box: Wilwood part number 340-11299
    -Wilwood 5/8 Brake Master (need 2): Wilwood part number 260-3372
    -Wilwood 3/4 Clutch Master: Wilwood part number 260-3374
    -Garagistic Pedal Box Mount: Found on this link listed above.
    -Braided steel brake lines: Use whatever ones you'd like
    -Custom brake lines from the masters to the braided lines on the calipers

    Things I've found:

    -I ended up with a 5/8 master for the clutch with is TOO SMALL. The adjustable pedals on the box make it work, but there is A TON of travel and the clutch engages right off the floor. Garagistic now recommends a 3/4 master for the clutch. I feel like you could also run a 13/16 or a 7/8 if you want abrupt engagement with very little pedal travel. That's up to you. Just stay away from the 5/8.

    -If you aren't using a stock slave cylinder like a Wilwood unit or something, just size it however they recommend.

    -When I bought the pedal box mount almost 2 years ago, there was a slight fitment issue with the holes and they had to be moved a bit. I'm sure they've fixed it now. Install is not fun at all. It will be MUCH easier with the dash removed. However, I did it with the dash in. It's possible, but it sucks.

    -When setting up the adjustable pedals, the brake will need to be farther out than you'd want or expect. Since the brake masters are small and you have no booster, hydraulics says you need to compensate with lots of travel if you want a decent force. The clutch is adjustable with your fingers and a skinny needle nose pliers, but the brake pedal is not. This is the worst part about the setup. You'll need to remove the box several times to get the adjustment right. The more the brake pedal sticks out, the better. You have quite a bit of travel before the brakes start to grab.

    -Go with braided lines. Without a booster, you need all the help you can get. Regular rubber lines have some flex with just takes away from your already limited braking power. No rubber lines.

    -Find a way to secure your adjustment bars. Over time, the nuts will start to back out slightly with vibrations and the pedals will get closer to the floor. Not good.

    -I remotely mounted the 3 reservoirs in the engine bay and ran the rubber lines to the masters through the hole that the booster left. With this, you're going to want to find a way to fill the rest of that hole. Hot air blows past the header and warms your feet and legs very nicely.


    -If you're using a cable throttle you have to cut the pedal linkage a bit. Garagistic gives you instructions for that. It's not hard.

    -I'd recommend using large brakes and/or aggressive pads with this setup. I'm running stock brakes at the moment and emergency stops get dicey.

    I'm sure there are many other ways that probably work, but this is what I'm running and this is what I've found.

    #2
    I will be posting my install of the Wilwood remote bias adjuster as soon as I have it installed. I'm hoping to eliminate some of the headache associated with adjusting the bias.

    Comment


      #3
      Anyone have a definitive answer regarding the throttle cable or the brake switch?

      I may have overlooked this info elsewhere?
      Originally posted by ebelements
      Also, for those who don't know, negative camber is the greatest thing since sliced bread(panera). Even tire wear is for city busses and the elderly.

      Comment


        #4
        Can anyone provide a quick explanation of why the wilwood/garagistic dual master cylinders produce more brake line pressure than a dual circuit 17 mm Porsche 914 master? I feel like I'm missing something about these brake setups and would like to understand it better before I buy parts.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by sticksdaman View Post
          Anyone have a definitive answer regarding the throttle cable or the brake switch?

          I may have overlooked this info elsewhere?
          I have 86 E30 M60
          Throttle Cable E34 # 35411161881 same as commonly used on M/S 5x swaps
          This was used with the garagistic/wilwood pedal arrangement / modified throttle arm.
          again using the bracket from garagistic Stop light switch.. Used from' 86 w. 'round' body earlier were square ??
          My CA legal M60 swap

          The happening in our garage

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks 36brua!

            I was leaning in that direction, this was the one I used on my m52 swap a few years back, but wanted to be certain before I ordered the part.
            Originally posted by ebelements
            Also, for those who don't know, negative camber is the greatest thing since sliced bread(panera). Even tire wear is for city busses and the elderly.

            Comment


              #7
              Rather than start a new thread, I'll post my question here.

              What specific brake like adaptors are needed to connect the e30 brake lines to the wilwood master cylinders?


              I have the 90º optional fittings from garagistic, but it seems like they wont fit the standard e30 sized brake like nuts? I didnt see anything listed about needing additional adapters in the garagistic write up and I cant find any specific details regarding which adaptors, if any, are needed.

              Second question. Since I'm deleting the ABS, is it possible to re use the lines running to the ABS and route them to the front and rear calipers directly? I dont mind buying and bending new lines, just looking for insight from someone who actually has done the conversion.
              Originally posted by ebelements
              Also, for those who don't know, negative camber is the greatest thing since sliced bread(panera). Even tire wear is for city busses and the elderly.

              Comment


                #8
                Kevin - thanks for the write-up. I am little concerned with this "You have quite a bit of travel before the brakes start to grab." Any way to reduce the dead travel?
                Mtech1 v8 build thread - https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=413205



                OEM v8 manual chip or dme - https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho....php?p=4938827

                Comment


                  #9
                  I have the setup and I highly dislike it. I had to adjust my brake pedal about 3/4" higher than my clutch pedal so the brakes grab sooner, and I can't seem to get enough adjustment in the balance bar to bias the brakes towards the front enough.

                  Hind sight I would have gone with Tilton pedals or the remote booster setup.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by strang3majik View Post
                    I have the setup and I highly dislike it. I had to adjust my brake pedal about 3/4" higher than my clutch pedal so the brakes grab sooner, and I can't seem to get enough adjustment in the balance bar to bias the brakes towards the front enough.

                    Hind sight I would have gone with Tilton pedals or the remote booster setup.
                    what brakes do you have ?
                    My CA legal M60 swap

                    The happening in our garage

                    Comment


                      #11
                      why aren't you guys adjusting the height of the pedal by screwing the threaded pushrod into the clevis? can't you do that with the wilwood balance bar?

                      If you pay attention to the drawings, the balance bar is NOT to be offset in the rest position. It should be pretty level.

                      BMW use metric fittings, wilwood and tilton cylinders don't. If you used factory brake nuts and bent the hard lines to suit, they will still have M10x1.0 brake nuts. You need an -3 to M10x1.0 adapter. Earl's make some, 989534ERL is the part number. Just check to make sure your wilwood masters are the -3 ones as they also do them in 1/8" NPT, but the short tilton masters are -3.



                      In the end, as I was making new lines I decided to ditch the adapters and just buy some new -3 flare nuts. Nothing wrong with adapters, they just made the fitting stick out about another inch from the master cylinders.



                      From building a number of pedal boxes to fit into E30's, I was always a little worried about the thickness of the metal used in some other pedal boxes I have seen. First car I did the firewall flexed a WHOLE LOT, that was using 4mm plate. I ended up removing it later and rebuilding it, 4mm plate was ok to form the box part of the pedals, but for the plate that mounts to the firewall I used much thicker 7mm stuff that made a lot of difference. I use a cross brace between the legs of the box which sits snug up under the cut out for the battery box area in the firewall (you can just make it out in the photo above). I originally figured for added stiffness we could drill through the plate and the flat section in the battery area, then bolt both together, but I've made the boxes so robust nobody has seen the need so far.
                      Last edited by Madhatter; 04-30-2015, 02:26 AM.
                      Just a little project im working on
                      - http://www.lse30.com -

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by 36brua View Post
                        what brakes do you have ?
                        I have it mostly adjusted now, but I'm still not exactly happy with the pedals...plus its impossible to get the supplied hardware to seal, copper washer and all.

                        But I have e46 m3 front brakes and e46 325i rear brakes.

                        Madhatter...I see you didn't use the Garagistic pedal bracket. Your's looks much cleaner and more accessible to make adjustments.
                        Last edited by strang3majik; 05-01-2015, 01:04 PM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Yeah. Mine is all custom work, I've built a few now, but I only do them when I have the car here so I can guarantee everything lines up perfectly as I cut and drill the plate for the box myself (so sometimes I need to just massage a hole to get it to line up 100% properly).

                          I've used the tilton pedal set, to make adjustments you can go in under the box, in front of the pedals. The most difficult part is getting a spanner on to the lock nut on the clutch pushrod. Once its free you can just turn them by hand though. You can see one of the lock nuts on the pushrod in this pic.



                          This is off my actual car, one of the first ones I started (then have removed a couple of times to make things perfect, so I copy it now with any others I have made/fit).





                          I also bearing mount the throttle pedal, so no more bushes and wear/play to worry about.

                          Just a little project im working on
                          - http://www.lse30.com -

                          Comment


                            #14
                            [quote=strang3majik;4400721]I have it mostly adjusted now, but I'm still not exactly happy with the pedals...plus its impossible to get the supplied hardware to seal, copper washer and all.

                            But I have e46 m3 front brakes and e46 325i rear brakes.

                            How did you correct the bias problem ? I have too much front using e36 frnt E30 M3 rear. not looking forward to resetting balance bar/ masters . garaistic/wilwood set up. Thanks
                            My CA legal M60 swap

                            The happening in our garage

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Get a remote bias adjuster. It bolts on to the end of the balance bar and you can make adjustments with a knob.

                              Wilwood make a proportioning valve with the correct M10x1.0 threads too.

                              Just a little project im working on
                              - http://www.lse30.com -

                              Comment

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