YO YO YO Democrats turn to rap to get the youth vote

[Wiglaf]

I hope he runs again just so I can see people's heads explode.

make that SPLODE

[Jon325i]

So basically Obama will not be president after 2012

I don't believe he will be. Some of my co-workers are left leaning.....some very left leaning. I've heard them comment about their dissatisfaction with Obama after voting for him (a few volunteered during his campaign). A lot of them have said they wouldn't vote for him again.

For Obama to run for a second term, and win, would be to see the nations' unemployment go from ~10% to about ~6% and he makes good on some of his foreign policy issues with regards to getting out of the middle east. If neither of these happen, he will be a one trick pony.

Jon

[z31maniac]

1. The reason alot of Dems aren't happy is because he isn't radical ENOUGH.
2. His foreign policy, particularly concerning the Israeli peace talks and Iran are doomed to fail.

He is following almost lock step with Jimmy Carter, and how did his foreign policy adventures turn out?

[Kansas]

Just imagine if the Republicans were doing this.

Don't suppose you've ever heard of Micheal Steele, huh?

1. The reason alot of Dems aren't happy is because he isn't radical ENOUGH.
2. His foreign policy, particularly concerning the Israeli peace talks and Iran are doomed to fail.

He is following almost lock step with Jimmy Carter, and how did his foreign policy adventures turn out?

1. True. Plenty of people aren't satisfied with Obama because he hasn't pushed for a more progressive agenda. I know I would've liked to see a public option in HCR, continued stimulus spending, etc etc. But when it comes down to it, he's still done a hell of a lot more than anyone since FDR.

2. Isreali peace talks haven't gone anywhere in 30 years. No one will hold that against him. As for Obama's supposed dislike for Israel, that's bullshit too. The Israeli's are set to get more military aid from us than ever before in 2011, thanks to loan guarantees Obama signed off on.

As for Iran, new US sanctions have passed and Obama is pushing for further UN sanctions (an increase over those passed in June). That's far from a failure, but nothing short of a war would stop Iran from building a nuke. Not that they could hit us with one, but that's besides the point. A war with Iran would mean a reinstatement of the draft, which would be a hell of a lot bigger political liability than Iran having their own nuclear weapon.

I'd say he's doing a hell of a lot better than Carter at this point. Wish he'd call China on their currency bullshit though.

[ck_taft325is]

1. How would more stimulus have helped in your eyes?

2. Quite true. If those you're negotiating with arn't peaceful, then why bother. I mean Iran of course.

[joshh]

Don't suppose you've ever heard of Micheal Steele, huh?



1. True. Plenty of people aren't satisfied with Obama because he hasn't pushed for a more progressive agenda. I know I would've liked to see a public option in HCR, continued stimulus spending, etc etc. But when it comes down to it, he's still done a hell of a lot more than anyone since FDR.

More to doing what? Using everyone else's money to fund social programs that are not in our Constitution?
Continued stimulous spending that has done very very little other than (arguably) stop the economy from getting worse?
And FDR is an example of good things? Like how FDR kept the Great Depression going for a number of extra years.

2. Isreali peace talks haven't gone anywhere in 30 years. No one will hold that against him. As for Obama's supposed dislike for Israel, that's bullshit too. The Israeli's are set to get more military aid from us than ever before in 2011, thanks to loan guarantees Obama signed off on.

Only the pressure from those who saw how Obama was treating Israel is the only reason he's changed his tune.

As for Iran, new US sanctions have passed and Obama is pushing for further UN sanctions (an increase over those passed in June). That's far from a failure, but nothing short of a war would stop Iran from building a nuke. Not that they could hit us with one, but that's besides the point. A war with Iran would mean a reinstatement of the draft, which would be a hell of a lot bigger political liability than Iran having their own nuclear weapon.

I'd say he's doing a hell of a lot better than Carter at this point. Wish he'd call China on their currency bullshit though.

And the sanctions are doing exactly what....NOTHING!
We don't need to go to war with Iran....Operation Opera II, DONE!

[z31maniac]

1. True. Plenty of people aren't satisfied with Obama because he hasn't pushed for a more progressive agenda. I know I would've liked to see a public option in HCR, continued stimulus spending, etc etc. But when it comes down to it, he's still done a hell of a lot more than anyone since FDR.

Yes, a hell of alot more to bankrupt this country and continue to bolster the "entitlement class."

2. Isreali peace talks haven't gone anywhere in 30 years. No one will hold that against him. As for Obama's supposed dislike for Israel, that's bullshit too. The Israeli's are set to get more military aid from us than ever before in 2011, thanks to loan guarantees Obama signed off on.

As for Iran, new US sanctions have passed and Obama is pushing for further UN sanctions (an increase over those passed in June). That's far from a failure, but nothing short of a war would stop Iran from building a nuke. Not that they could hit us with one, but that's besides the point. A war with Iran would mean a reinstatement of the draft, which would be a hell of a lot bigger political liability than Iran having their own nuclear weapon.

I'd say he's doing a hell of a lot better than Carter at this point. Wish he'd call China on their currency bullshit though.

The sanctions are meaningless, it's the manner in which he is approaching, his modus operandi, as it were, that very close to how Carter was handling the situation. Big deal that we won't do business with them while China and Russia continue to.


I seriously doubt there will ever be a resolution to the Israel/Palestine problem and especially not during our lifetimes.

[joshh]

The ONLY way Israel and Palestine will become even mildly at peace is if Israel makes the first move. And they refuse to do so. So much that now Hamas has gained much of the public support of Palestinians.
It's very simple. Go back to the 1969 borders and help the Palestinians rebuild.
Yes they will always have enemies but they could have many more supporters as well.

[reelop19]

Yeah WTF? Where did this dude an his progressive ideology come from. Why hold on to an ideology that doesn't work? I guess we'll have to ask the rest of the world who adopts socialism and communism. But lets not ask the one's who are running away from it.

[Kansas]

1. How would more stimulus have helped in your eyes?

I don't think the original stimulus was large enough to get the economy moving, only stabilize the economy. It certainly wasn't targeted well enough. But then again it was a rush job; something that (politically) had to be done very quickly. Senators used that as an opportunity to earmark the shit out of that money. I think something like a third of it hasn't even been spent yet.

People seem to be very quick to forget our own nations economic history. Hoover's response to the Wall Street crash in 1929 was to let the market sort it out and that attitude brought us the Great Depression. FDR didn't just try one round of "stimulus", see minimal results and say "Fuck it". He (and Congress) continued to refine their approach.

2. Quite true. If those you're negotiating with arn't peaceful, then why bother. I mean Iran of course.

Indeed. We don't even have formal diplomatic relations with Iran. On the one hand I think that's a serious mistake, but then again, there probably wouldn't be a whole lot gained by formally restarting relations with them.

= Like how FDR kept the Great Depression going for a number of extra years.

Source?

Only the pressure from those who saw how Obama was treating Israel is the only reason he's changed his tune.

Sure. And how exactly did he change his tune? If you think this White House is anything but pro-Israel you're fooling yourself. Shit, Rahm was in the IDF. And Biden might as well be Jewish. They didn't get mad at Israel for some evil, underlying philosophical reason, they got mad because Israel continues to shoot itself in the foot.

And the sanctions are doing exactly what....NOTHING!
We don't need to go to war with Iran....Operation Opera II, DONE!

In reality the sanctions have fucked them pretty hard, but why acknowledge that when it conflicts with your own views, right? The point of the sanctions isn't to (directly) stop Iran from enriching their own uranium. The point is to make it prohibitively costly to do so.

Unfortunately, Ahmadinejad can just spew a bunch of nationalist crap, call us the Great Satan, whatever, and his base is happy. Just like conservative leaders play people here.

And while Operation Opera was against Iraq, yeah that's probably what will happen. No matter who is in power in Israel they won't tolerate Iran building a real nuke.

Big deal that we won't do business with them while China and Russia continue to.

Considering that we're the largest economy on Earth, yeah, it is a big deal. We also exert a great deal of influence over most major lending institutions in the world, which can make life hard for a rentier state like Iran.

[mrsleeve]

I don't think the original stimulus was large enough to get the economy moving, only stabilize the economy. It certainly wasn't targeted well enough. But then again it was a rush job; something that (politically) had to be done very quickly. Senators used that as an opportunity to earmark the shit out of that money. I think something like a third of it hasn't even been spent yet.

jesus H christ, I dont know where to begin with this shit. So I will let it go, as I dont have the time.

People seem to be very quick to forget our own nations economic history. Hoover's response to the Wall Street crash in 1929 was to let the market sort it out and that attitude brought us the Great Depression. FDR didn't just try one round of "stimulus", see minimal results and say "Fuck it". He (and Congress) continued to refine their approach.

Ummm yeah thats why the Depression of the early 30's everywhere else in the world is just refrenced in history other than here in the states is as just "The Depression". It did not drag on for 10 years in the rest of the world like it did in the states hence the "Great" part is an American thing.

Yeah they had 10 years of trying and just made shit worse at every attempt. Raised taxes to 90%, raised property taxes and taxed farmers off the land, burnt and destroyed crops and food to keep prices high, Forced business to run on NO Liquid capital by forcing them to pay 98% tax on any UNDISTRIBUTED PROFITS (no rainy day fund allowed), Confiscation of all privately held gold, Gave us SSI and Govt HC, and all kinds of other social programs, there is a shit ton more shall I continue. Yeah FDR got us though the depression all right. Oh and the intimidate stop to govt spending after WWII is what kept the economy rolling and staved off recession right after WWII

Indeed. We don't even have formal diplomatic relations with Iran. On the one hand I think that's a serious mistake, but then again, there probably wouldn't be a whole lot gained by formally restarting relations with them.

Do you try to negotiate with the guy wanting to kill you or ask him if he was not loved as a child???? Talking to a Crazy man will get you nothing but crazy.

Source?

Books, try reading some, other than the those written by Progressives, with and agenda to push.

[Poloe30]

jesus H christ, I dont know where to begin with this shit. So I will let it go, as I dont have the time.



Ummm yeah thats why the Depression of the early 30's everywhere else in the world is just refrenced in history other than here in the states is as just "The Depression". It did not drag on for 10 years in the rest of the world like it did in the states hence the "Great" part is an American thing.

Yeah they had 10 years of trying and just made shit worse at every attempt. Raised taxes to 90%, raised property taxes and taxed farmers off the land, burnt and destroyed crops and food to keep prices high, Forced business to run on NO Liquid capital by forcing them to pay 98% tax on any UNDISTRIBUTED PROFITS (no rainy day fund allowed), Confiscation of all privately held gold, Gave us SSI and Govt HC, and all kinds of other social programs, there is a shit ton more shall I continue. Yeah FDR got us though the depression all right. Oh and the intimidate stop to govt spending after WWII is what kept the economy rolling and staved off recession right after WWII




Do you try to negotiate with the guy wanting to kill you or ask him if he was not loved as a child???? Talking to a Crazy man will get you nothing but crazy.



Books, try reading some, other than the those written by Progressives, with and agenda to push.

Some big claims, you got any sources? You are just like my friend who says all this stuff but can't back it up with sources. Making the information worthless. What are we suppose to do? Take your word for it?

[mrsleeve]

Well for 1 you could Google it and actually learn something rather than have me spoon feed it to you. Or you could try reading a book or 2. Or if your grandparents are odd enough to have been alive then go talk to them about those time's. These sources are where I have drawn my knowledge on the subject, and with a little effort you can have it too.

This the problem with you kids today you want someone else to do all the leg work for you, do it your self. You will find all of my statements to be true if you just dig a fraction below the surface of what you public school history book tells you.

[z31maniac]

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx

Here is just one to get you guys started.

I suspect you will do no more research, however, because it will contrast your idealistic views that govt will solve all problems.

[BraveUlysses]

This the problem with you kids today you want someone else to do all the leg work for you, do it your self. You will find all of my statements to be true if you just dig a fraction below the surface of what you public school history book tells you.

Since you're making the argument, it's on you to back your statements up. This is the absolute most basic expectation in any debate.