FS: M50/S50 etc. UUC 8.5lb flywheel

[Eric]

Hi Guys,

I have a UUC 8.5 lb flywheel for sale. It has covered approx. 350km of normal highway driving, and 25km of light track use on the Nurburgring grand prix track before the clutch disc decided to explode. Rob @ UUC was nice enough to warranty the clutch disc and pressure plate, but the box I sent was never received at UUC, or their shipping department lost it, so now I'm stuck with a flywheel and no clutch. I'd rather sell this item to somebody who will use it, rather than let it continue sitting on the shelf.


DSCN3883 by ericandshovin, on Flickr


Specs:
From UUC:
-construction: CNC machined 6061-T6 aluminum
-dowel pin hole: enlarged like factory-fit.
-friction plate: replaceable, 1050 steel (suitable for any clutch material).
-balancing: 11,000rpm and spin-burst tested to 14,000rpm. SFI CERTIFIED
-weight: 8.5 lb
-pressure plate, throwout bearing & clutch used: '91 - '93 E34 M5 parts required. BMW part # 21 21 2 226 428 (complete clutch kit)
- Made in USA


Details:
The flywheel has very very little use, and a few scratches/gouges in the aluminum from the clutch disk letting go. I don't believe it will effect the balance of the flywheel at all.

Here is a detailed description I sent Rob a few days after it happened.

I drove the car approximately 350km normal driving, then last Tuesday I took the car to the Nurburgring. The Nordschliefe was closed due to fog, so we headed over to the Grand Prix track. The track condition was damp from the fog settling on the ground. I have little experience on the track, only driving it for 30 minutes before in my wifes stock mkV GTi. This was the first time driving the car with the new motor installed, as well as brand new kuhmo XS tires, and completely manual brake system that I had no idea what the bias was positioned at.

Needless to say, I did not drive the car hard. I never gave the car 100% throttle, I do not abuse drive trains, popping the clutch etc. While on track, I was more concerned with adjusting the brake bias, re-learning the cars behaviors and scrubbing the brand new tires in than going fast. With that said, the track is hard on your left foot, with multiple 3-4-5, 5-4-3 sections. I was heel-toe shifting most of the time, but never upshifting and popping the clutch without matching RPM's. after only 5 laps on the 5km course, the clutch disc came apart on a shift from 3rd to 4th coming out of turn 10. I pushed the clutch in, heard a pop, and then could not engage 4th. From there I coasted to a safe spot on a run-off section outside turn 11 and waited for a tow. A 180 euro tow.

I can upload pictures of the suicide bomber clutch if anybody is interested.
Post # 149... http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=75875


Price/payment:$350 shipped within the Continental US. Payment through paypal wmwnwmn at gmail dot com. I paid $1098 for this flywheel and "performance" clutch. Flywheel alone is $599 from UUC. My loss...

Contact:If you have any questions or would like more details, please email me at wmwnwmn at gmail.com, this works much better than PM function

[lbreevesii]

dang glws man. If I hadn't bought mine i'd snag this.

[RobertK]

Hi Guys,

I have a UUC 8.5 lb flywheel for sale. It has covered approx. 350km of normal highway driving, and 25km of light track use on the Nurburgring grand prix track before the clutch disc decided to explode. Rob @ UUC was nice enough to warranty the clutch disc and pressure plate

First I was like.. "Wow, Sounds UUC is finally improving its customer service."

, but the box I sent was never received at UUC, or their shipping department lost it, so now I'm stuck with a flywheel and no clutch. I'd rather sell this item to somebody who will use it, rather than let it continue sitting on the shelf.

Then I was like.. "Ahh, how convenient, but not surprising."

[Rob@UUC]

Hey guys,

I'm a little surprised to see this, but like any company that sells parts... we can't give credit for parts that were never shipped back.

We always recommend UPS shipping with insurance - you get tracking information and full-value coverage if UPS loses it.

We stand behind our customers 100% and would do everything possible to assist if a UPS claim were started by the shipper.

[Robert]

Great Customer Service was supposed to kick in there, you're supposed to do anything to make the customer happy.

Why would Eric a member from '04 lie about shipping ?

/rant

[borrihong]

Hey guys,

I'm a little surprised to see this, but like any company that sells parts... we can't give credit for parts that were never shipped back.

We always recommend UPS shipping with insurance - you get tracking information and full-value coverage if UPS loses it.

We stand behind our customers 100% and would do everything possible to assist if a UPS claim were started by the shipper.

If he made a UPS claim, would you buy the flywheel at book value?

[Rob@UUC]

Great Customer Service was supposed to kick in there, you're supposed to do anything to make the customer happy.

Why would Eric a member from '04 lie about shipping ?

/rant

Why a rant? Why not a clear and open discussion?

This is how customer service works; a customer has an issue and contacts us (we're not psychic!).

We assess the issue and do whatever we can to correct it. If it's an incorrect part that we shipped, we replace it and send a return label. If it's a lost shipment, we send a replacement and we deal with the UPS insurance (NO WAIT to the customer).

If there is a warranty issue, it's simple; like any company on the planet, the old part must be returned. So we handle that in one of two ways: 1) the customer sends the part back, we send a replacement upon return. 2) we charge the customer for a new part (or just a small holding charge), send the new one right away, and refund 100% upon return of the defective part... usually it's within the same week, so it's just numbers back and forth on a credit card.

This is the only way we can ensure that parts get returned - we've tried it the "honor system" way and got burned too many times.

I don't know the particulars of Eric's situation, but the simple fact remains - we cannot give a refund or exchange on a part that has not been received in our warehouse. No company would!

So in this case, I'm finding out about a problem on a message board. I've not had a follow-up conversation with Eric to see if there is some way we can help him.

Also, it's important to understand how UPS works... the shipper is the one responsible for filing a non-receipt claim. That is not something that we, as the receiver, could do.

I hope that helps clears things up. At UUC, we take customer service very seriously. I guarantee you this - anybody dissatisfied has either a) not given us the opportunity to help, or b) has unrealistic expectations of what can be done.

[Rob@UUC]

If he made a UPS claim, would you buy the flywheel at book value?

The UPS claim was for the clutch; that's what was shipped. He'd probably get 100% new cost (we would supply replacement price on that to UPS) for that part, and then we would send him a replacement.

You can't make a UPS claim for something that wasn't shipped... that's fraud.

[RobertK]

Just to clarify..

What you're saying is if Eric could provide a tracking # that shows it was delivered to your warehouse you would send him a new clutch?

[Rob@UUC]

Just to clarify..

What you're saying is if Eric could provide a tracking # that shows it was delivered to your warehouse you would send him a new clutch?

Obviously! If we lost it, that's not Eric's problem.

But discussion of one person's shipping question should be handled only one way... ERIC, please call me directly and let's see what information can be found to sort this out.

[RobertK]

Obviously! If we lost it, that's not Eric's problem.

But discussion of one person's shipping question should be handled only one way... ERIC, please call me directly and let's see what information can be found to sort this out.

Agreed, always good to see a vendor being proactive on the forums.

[Rob@UUC]

Agreed, always good to see a vendor being proactive on the forums.

Glad to.

[Eric]

Hey guys,

I'm a little surprised to see this, but like any company that sells parts... we can't give credit for parts that were never shipped back.

We always recommend UPS shipping with insurance - you get tracking information and full-value coverage if UPS loses it.

We stand behind our customers 100% and would do everything possible to assist if a UPS claim were started by the shipper.

Hi Rob,

I gotta say, I'm not surprised to see you pop into this for sale thread. My intent is not to start a rant/bashing/negative UUC thread, instead I'd like to just sell a part. As you can see, nothing in my for sale post was malice towards you or UUC. I however cannot control other peoples responses, except to ask that this not become a bash UUC thread, we've all read those before.

I have to say that I find it odd that in 5 years of being stationed in Germany, shipping out or receiving hundreds if not thousands of packages through the APO mail system that the post office runs; the only package EVER lost is the one I shipped back to UUC with the defective pressure plate and the pieces of clutch remains.

We had an email conversation at the end of November 2010 about the pressure plate, and on 02 Dec 10 you wrote:

{snip}Regardless, I am willing to do a "goodwill" warranty replacement on the entire clutch for you.

I do need to get the damaged clutch assembly back from you. Would you like to send it back first, or shall I ship you a new one immediately, bill you for it, and then refund upon receiving the return?{snip}

Same day I responded asking for a return authorization number, something your website states is required

{snip}I'm not in a rush to put the lightweight flywheel in the car. The motor swap started Easter weekend, and just got finished last month so I'd like to put a few laps on the Nordschliefe before we leave Germany for good in February. Would you like me to ship the current clutch system to the UUC address on the contacts page? Should I need a return number?{snip}

I guess the part where I stated that I wasn't in a rush to put the LTW flywheel back in the car was interpreted as no need to respond, because I did not receive any response.

Now you have to understand that during this time of late 2010 and early 2011 I was in the process of moving my household and family to another continent! Furthermore, my wife and infant son were going to be moving to one location, and I was going to another. To say this was a hectic and stressful time would be an understatement. Sometime in the first few weeks of Jan 2011 I shipped the defective pressure plate, and clutch disc remains back to UUC. Even though I didn't have a RA number, I figured personal emails from the owner of the company would suffice. Unfortunately, USPS does not offer tracking numbers for military mail. They do offer delivery confirmation... something I should have paid for in hindsight.


on 23 Mar 2011 I sent another email that went unanswered.

{snip}My E30 arrived in port from Germany last week and it reminded me of this conversation we had. I sent the damaged clutch back to UUC, but have not received the replacement.

My address is:{snip}

During this time I was in an advanced training class for the Air force (to put in perspective, they taught me how to build bombs in 6 weeks, this new training took 6 months) and didn't put a huge emphasis on tearing back into the E30 once again since I lived in an apartment and had all my car parts/tools in a storage shed with a dirt Texan floor.



Fast forward to October 2011, and I am now settled in Colorado. Getting comfortable with the new job, house is all unpacked, etc.

When I emailed you on 27 Oct 11, I included all of our past emails, because I was pretty sure that you do a seizable amount of business, and something like this can be forgotten. Not the best business practice, but I know that nobody can be 100% on top of every detail, and I don't fault you for it.

Hi Rob,

I'm now in Colorado, and I'd like to put the LTW flywheel back in the car over the winter.

On 02 Dec 2010 you wrote: "Regardless, I am willing to do a "goodwill" warranty replacement on the entire clutch for you.


I do need to get the damaged clutch assembly back from you. Would you like to send it back first, or shall I ship you a new one immediately, bill you for it, and then refund upon receiving the return?"

Could you please send it to:{snip}

Your response confirmed what I thought, that my email had long been lost in the depths of Outlook.

Hi Eric,

So to confirm, I shall bill you for it and refund upon the return?

Bill to your VISA ending in{snip}

Now I inform you that I had already shipped it

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the reply. I sent you the pressure plate and exploded clutch disk in January right after the holiday madness. I asked if I needed a return authorization number, but didn't get a response. So I sent it anyway since we were PCSing out if Germany February 1st, and I didn't want the damaged parts shipped with our household goods.

Thanks,
-Eric

And here comes the bad news...

Hi Eric,

My shipping department isn't finding the return in the logbook. Do you have tracking info?

Would it have had a different name on the label, perhaps the shipping company?

Hi Rob,

Dang that sucks! I shipped it via USPS from an APO box. Because it was military mail, they don't do tracking numbers. The return address when I was stationed in Germany was

Eric Long
{snip}{snip}

Thank you for your attention to this matter!

After this final email, I never received a response. My interpretation of this lack of response was that our transaction was finished and nothing more of the matter would continue other than me being without $1100 worth of parts.






Now, I fully understand the predicament that you are in. You cannot warranty a part if you don't have the part. On the other hand, Once these parts left my hands, there isn't a whole lot I could have done. With my track record of 99.99% success with the US post office and the military mail system, it is my opinion that the package arrived at UUC, and from there it disappeared.
Again, those in the Military stationed overseas will understand what I'm saying about just how much we ship while overseas. I would estimate that I bought things online/stateside and had is shipped 60% more than I did before, and I do now. There is no Walmart to pop into and grab this or that. If you want something american, it MUST be shipped. This includes Three deployments.... If the post office can deliver my boxes to a shithole in Kandahar Afghanistan, I have no doubt that it can safely transport something to a warehouse in suburban Atlanta.

I've had quite a few PM's asking about the damage, so instead of blowing up my inbox, I figure I'll post them here. Again, this is with one day of driving around town, one trip from Spangdahlem Germany to Baumholder Germany (204km round trip), and one drive from Speicher Germany to Nurburg Germany (81km). I'm guessing that I put 350km on the drivetrain since installing it in the E30.
I'm very very familiar with the Nordschliefe, running consistently below 9 minutes BTG with a tired old M20 motor in the E30. The Nordschliefe was closed that morning for fog in the forest section, so we decided to do a session on the Grand Prix track since it was open. I am not nearly as familiar with the Grand Prix track as I am with the Nordschliefe, nor was I familiar with the car since driving it last, it had almost twice the power, twice the tire, and fully manual brake conversion with a baseline bias that was way way off.
I'm trying to paint the picture here that I was not driving the car hard. I was changing the brake bias dial after nearly every braking zone to try and settle the car down, and trying to remember the corners instead of win a HPDE championship.

Anyways, here are the photos:

virtually no wear on the pressure plate... no hot spots, not driving the car hard!

pressure plate I by ericandshovin, on Flickr

bent fingers:

bent pressure plate by ericandshovin, on Flickr

Random pieces...

random parts by ericandshovin, on Flickr

more pieces...

pieces by ericandshovin, on Flickr

not good

broken clutch II by ericandshovin, on Flickr


broken clutch I by ericandshovin, on Flickr


broken clutch III by ericandshovin, on Flickr



When I emailed Rob this photo, he thought that the drive straps were the cause of the failure.

Hi Eric,

I have an idea of what happened with this; what I can tell from that slight kink/bend on the drive straps is that the clutch appears to have been reverse-loaded... this means that a premature downshift caused engine braking to put power through the clutch assembly in the opposite direction. This causes the drive straps to be compressed and buckle, whereas normally they are in tension (pulled).

Regardless, I am willing to do a "goodwill" warranty replacement on the entire clutch for you.{snip}

drive strap 2and3 small by ericandshovin, on Flickr




Finally, before there is even a hint of improper installation, I don't believe this to be the case. My friend, a former F4 phantom Master technician, and a current automotive master technician is one of the most meticulous Germans I have ever met (hard to believe they can be more meticulous than normal Germans). His passion is restoring classic jags (owns an e-type and a MKII sedan), and races Triumphs. When we removed the bad clutch/flywheel, we replaced it with the OE parts that have unknown milage, but still within specs. Since then, the OE parts have completed 4 HPDE's and 6 dyno runs without incident. I don't believe I drive in a style that is particularly hard on drivetrains, and try to be a smooth driver as much as possible.

Here is a vid of the e30 in action last year in Colorado:



Again, I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to start a pissing match or bash on Rob or UUC. I've spoken to you Rob two or three times on the phone about this exploding clutch disc, and we are still here. With the last email that received no response, I feel that the matter will not make much progress with another phone call, and that written text is easier to state my side of the story more clearly and concisely. I also feel that much like all things in life, this story has much more depth to it than simply "blah, blew up UUC clutch, they lost it and wont replace it."

-Eric

[Eric]

A few people have PM/emailed me asking about the scratches/gouges and if they will effect the balance of the flywheel. The largest scratch has a depth of .031mm. My opinion is that this will not effect the balance of the flywheel, but I'm not an expert.

largest scratch:

DSCN4158 by ericandshovin, on Flickr

A ding, and a scratch in the background:

DSCN4159 by ericandshovin, on Flickr

the same scratch/ding combo as pictured above:

DSCN4160 by ericandshovin, on Flickr

another ding:

DSCN4162 by ericandshovin, on Flickr

The only surface irregularity I found while looking at it today. I believe this is from moisture in the air settling on the steel disk.

DSCN4161 by ericandshovin, on Flickr

Hope this helps clarify my description!

[Robert]

Very well said Eric.

Hopefully you can get things settled out and get a new clutch kit from them.

Goodluck with sale