collision repair and auto painting

[bmwstephen]

oliver, what are advantages and disadvantages of waterborne vs traditional oil based paints in terms of adhesion, durability and reliability?

[=======Live Fast!]

Do you want to fix the dings?
Do you want us to completely strip it?
Cheap paint?
Really nice paint?
It can be anything from $500 to $5000 depending on what route you want to go
If you go out to the meet tomorrow I'll be happy to answer any of your questions

Id do a lil paintless dent removal first. The guys over at Dentcraft removed around 36 small dings and dimples for $400! The car looks sooooo much better!

[=======Live Fast!]

oliver, what are advantages and disadvantages of waterborne vs traditional oil based paints in terms of adhesion, durability and reliability?

I know you asked Oliver but...
Just had this conversation with my body shop. Turns out the more toxic the paint and clear is the better it was. California apparently sets the benchmark when it comes to new, "safe" autobody products since they are the strictest with chemicals of all nature. Then the rest of the US follows suit. He pointed out that even though it's still a quality product, there's no way to determine how the newer paints and clearcoats will stand the test of time.

[jrobie79]

fucking california ruining shit for the rest of us

[oliver.r]

oliver, what are advantages and disadvantages of waterborne vs traditional oil based paints in terms of adhesion, durability and reliability?

I know you asked Oliver but...
Just had this conversation with my body shop. Turns out the more toxic the paint and clear is the better it was. California apparently sets the benchmark when it comes to new, "safe" autobody products since they are the strictest with chemicals of all nature. Then the rest of the US follows suit. He pointed out that even though it's still a quality product, there's no way to determine how the newer paints and clearcoats will stand the test of time.

fucking california ruining shit for the rest of us

There is actually nothing won't with low VOC paint
Keep in mind, clear coat is still solvent based, even though they lowered the VOC content they are high quality materials.
When we refinish spot repairs ( door, hood etc..) we provide a lifetime warranty so we are confident enough in the materials to back them up with a lifetime warranty.
Waterborne paint is not only better for the enviornment but it also provides a excellent color match.

Solvent is a whole lot easier and faster to paint but times change and as a industry we have to evolve

[bmwstephen]

Oliver,

does paint reach maximum adhesion after its bake/air cure phase once it is sprayed on? or does it reach maximum adhesion after it's natural cure which can take anywhere from 1 month to half a year after its sprayed on?

[agent]

i would recommend a basecoat/clear coat paint service, what that would consist of:
obviously repairing the surface of the vehicle, repairing and chips/scratches/ peeling paint or dents you wanted to repair.
remove as many items as possible that way all the edges are painted and dont peel in the future.
mask open areas.
sealer
base coat
color
clear coat.
color sand and buff for a mirror finish.
with proper maintanence that should last the life of the vehicle.
hope this helped!

This is exactly what I just had done to my car. We stripped the car of all the trim, glass, etc. to save on the total labor costs. My guy did the jambs too. See the build thread in my sig for images.

[oliver.r]

This is exactly what I just had done to my car. We stripped the car of all the trim, glass, etc. to save on the total labor costs. My guy did the jambs too. See the build thread in my sig for images.

thats the smartest way to do it man!

[oliver.r]

Oliver,

does paint reach maximum adhesion after its bake/air cure phase once it is sprayed on? or does it reach maximum adhesion after it's natural cure which can take anywhere from 1 month to half a year after its sprayed on?

paint reaches its maximum adhesion (key word maximum) after it completely cures, baking a vehicle is mostly used to flash dry a vehicle and prevent any unwanted particles from getting on the fresh paint

[bmwstephen]

interesting... so the durability of paint also has a peak?

in other words, it'll reach maximum adhesion at a certain point after paint stay solid to a certain period and then gradually degrade?

[oliver.r]

interesting... so the durability of paint also has a peak?

in other words, it'll reach maximum adhesion at a certain point after paint stay solid to a certain period and then gradually degrade?

thats right, paint on vehicle that are exposed regularly to UV will start degrading over time but you're talking year down the road

[bmwstephen]

but curing can be anywhere from a month to a few months for all the solvents (especially those in tight areas) to out-gas. wouldn't it mean that paint would be susceptible to elements and factors that'll upset it's adhesion such as body flex, car washes, condensation, etc?

[oliver.r]

but curing can be anywhere from a month to a few months for all the solvents (especially those in tight areas) to out-gas. wouldn't it mean that paint would be susceptible to elements and factors that'll upset it's adhesion such as body flex, car washes, condensation, etc?

you are right that all of those are things that affect the actual paint.
some of those affect the look and others actually affect the longevity.

it would be best for all cars to live the life of a trailer queen that way you would never have to paint your car but since that is not the case paints are formulated to withstand the daily grind.
car washes are not recommended for 3 weeks to give the paint time to "breathe",, waxing is not recommended for 6 months for the same reason.
to prevent stress marks, flex additive is aplied to plastic parts to prevent problems with adhesion.
hope this better answers your question

[bmw325csi]

What's up bro, I'm a ppg waterborne certified painter. I'm not the biggest fan of ppg anymore. It's beginning to be a pain in my ass with all their variations. How does dupont work for you? Color matching and flash times? Seems like every other brand I've tried is better than ppg, brands like matrix, pro spray, glasurit.

[oliver.r]

What's up bro, I'm a ppg waterborne certified painter. I'm not the biggest fan of ppg anymore. It's beginning to be a pain in my ass with all their variations. How does dupont work for you? Color matching and flash times? Seems like every other brand I've tried is better than ppg, brands like matrix, pro spray, glasurit.

hey man nice to hear!

i have never shot ppg in waterborne, from what i have heard from other techs its great but i guess not ha.

honestly i really like cromax pro, dupont got it right with this one.
color match is excellent in metallic colors, flash time isnt the fastest but with the complete waterborne set up ( blowers, venturis etc..) it is reasonable.
the only downside i would say is that you have to spray out a test panel every time to double check the color if you want it exact, gone are the days of putting up a mixing stick next to a panel and skwinting at it ha. but i guess thats not more of a waterbonre issue as opposed to a dupont specific issue.