5 Lug/BBK Kits

[Djmack]

Well, I apologize for being a dick, if I have been... But, this is unfortunately the wrong place to take your affairs. it sounds as if you have some beef to hash out with another person. And honestly, there's no knowing who's telling the whole truth. As much as we'd like to know, there could be more going on between yall than you're willing to share. I'm sure you realize that the kits in this group have already been bought, made, shipped, and received.

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[acolella76]

Not saying what he did was ethical, but it happens. Apparently there was a problem with the way the kit was originally marketed, and nasieg did a better job selling the kits. Welcome to capitalism. I'm sorry things didn't go the way you wanted, but you'd be best venting your problems to people that have not already purchased this kit.

[Djmack]

Oh, and before I forget. You're not the first person to use a bolt on hub race design. Imo, it's fair game.

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[rongineer13]

Thank you, I appreciate your saying that; in no way was I expecting everyone here to know exactly where I was coming from. And you're right, it is difficult to tell what the whole truth is. In addition, I'm not attempting to air my laundry here, or anywhere else on the internet. This is indeed not the place, nor will it become that. Admittedly, perhaps I should have waited a few days before chancing my emotion over this showing through. My apologies if it indeed did.

And yes, I do realize that they have already shipped. The way that I choose market my kit is clearly different that it was marketed here; I've sold kits, and continue to sell, to people who prefer the whole package instead of a la carte like here.

I believe it's only appropriate that everyone be aware of the fact it is indeed my kit and that it is being produced and marketed under false pretenses. I hold nothing against anyone here who has purchased my kit this way, I truly do hope everyone enjoys it and finds it to be the high quality kit I worked so hard for it to be.

[rongineer13]

Not saying what he did was ethical, but it happens. Apparently there was a problem with the way the kit was originally marketed, and nasieg did a better job selling the kits. Welcome to capitalism. I'm sorry things didn't go the way you wanted, but you'd be best venting your problems to people that have not already purchased this kit.

There is a clear difference between capitalism, and down right theft. nasieg was allowed to market and sell off the remaining kits in his possession. End of story.

[rongineer13]

Lol, well that's all part of being an adult, isn't it? I'm done venting, and any all of discussion of it in the view of the public by me ends here.

Enjoy your 5 lug and BBK guys!

[Eydreeyun]

Wait! Before you go can you leave a little tip on how you made the e46m3 rear calipers work?

[nasieg]

There is a clear difference between capitalism, and down right theft. nasieg was allowed to market and sell off the remaining kits in his possession. End of story.

Well time for me to chime in since I am being slandered.

I find it interesting that after almost 2 years of being silent, you finally decide to "market" "your" product. We live in a fast paced world and if you go out there with an idea like this, you better hit the ground running. I told you that, after I invested ALL the money and resources to produce the original 50 kits, which you left me sitting on. I literally begged you to lower your unrealistic asking price to something more reasonable, at least until we recoup our (sorry my) costs and get some word of mouth, which has happened now btw! See how that works! You did absolutely nothing to sell these kits when they were ready, which is very easy to proof by checking your response time on your group buy thread. It took you days to get back to people and they lost interest, and then you went completely off grid.
In the meanwhile I was sitting on 50 kits and had to spend countless hours trying to sell them in Germany on a e30 forum. That took A LOT of effort and wasted more time then you can ever imagine. I was able to sell a good amount there, but had to sell the remaining kits here on r3v, because you still weren't holding up your end of the bargain.

After finally selling them all and fighting with your dad to get paid for the 10 kits you took yourself, I had absolutely no interest in making more of these ever again! However, I kept getting pm's from fellow forum members who bugged me to build more. I first referred them over to you, but apparently you were not responding. I never advertized the kits and was just trying to be a helpful forum member and agreed to build a few more if somebody else was going handle the group buy. Or did you ever see me advertizing them?

The reality is that at this point any machine shop could copy this kit and it might as well be me. I don't make more than shop rate on them. You could have made these work and even make a decent profit, had you not been so greedy and held up your end of the bargain.

BTW, it is true, others had the same idea before, which I found out when selling them on the German forum. When I told you about it you just said, ooops, my bad and thought it was funny. I guess you didn't really care because it wasn't you that was sitting on $15k of inventory. So when you said that I was allowed to sell the remaining kits off, you are being pretty arrogant. I don't need your permission to sell something I made and paid for. Show me a non disclosure agreement! Besides, I put plenty of time and know how in to the kit during the development. You had no idea how to tolerance a print, what materials to choose and so forth.

So get off your high horse. You had an idea that you asked somebody to help you develop and fund 100%. Your end of the bargain was to market them, which you did not do. Then you sat on your lazy ass for almost 2 years and now you are complaining because we made a few more. Big deal! My shop's sales are in the neighborhood of $1 million/year, you really think I need to "scam" a few thousand dollars of this. Get real.

[JIMBOkye]

Get real.

*drops mic

[Djmack]

*drops mic

*crickets

[jph]

Not to stir the pot here, but would like to voice my experience for others to see. I sent Rongineer an email asking about buying kit parts a la carte on February 21, 2015 and still haven't heard back from him to this day. I have already bought a kit from the last production run so this is now moot, but still worth mentioning that Rongineer appeared (at least to me) to be disassociated with this kit. A little more digging led me to the early stages of the group buy and I jumped onboard. I don't think that what Nasieg did here for the members of the forum was wrong and if his response is 100% accurate then I can't blame him one bit for how he has handled the venture and the continued production. Unless the design was patented or there is a legally binding agreement between both parties then continued production should be unhindered if Nasieg so chooses. Just my $.02

[rongineer13]

Great stand up routine, always the one to fly off the emotional handle there. So predictable. Like I said, I will not be the one to air my laundry on the internet like you've now choosen to do.

Clearly, if you make so much money each year and don't need it, then to be doing what you are off of someone else design and idea is purely because you feel like it. Aaand yes, once again you ARE correct. A 19 year old with absolutely NO training in materials, proper drafting techniques, and a complete lack of machinist experience, will consult the ones who know.

And just so we're clear, you and I had our falling out for numerous reasons, and we parted ways over this. You made your choices, as did I. You're the one who's decided to make another production run because, well, you're greedy and lack ethics. And I'm the one who gets to make it clear that it's not your idea. So enjoy the extra play money, and I really do mean that, and have a nice life knowing that in reality you'll never actually been the one to come up with this on your own.

So again, I'm done talking about this, if people want E46 M3 rear brakes, figure it out. It ain't a huge mystery. Au revoir


EDIT: just so everyone's clear, say and think what everyone wishes about me, I'm truly over it now. I've learned my lesson, I've moved on, and I think it's needless to say this but I will anyways: I'm done contributing to an environment such as this. I know I have a lot to offer the world in my young years but it will no longer be here.

[Djmack]

Like I said, I will not be the one to air my laundry on the internet like you've now choosen to do.

I hate to inform you of this, but your laundry's been dry for a while.

[rongineer13]

Thanks for the clarification, the moisture sensor in my automatic dryer has been on the fritz for some time now.

[nasieg]

Thanks for those who have chimed in and voiced the same experiences that I had, that rongineer was disassociated from this kit. I have gotten several PM's stating the same thing. If I had time I could dig up at least a dozen more old PM's from members that complained of not getting a reply back from him after inquiring about the kit back when it was first launched. That was the really frustrating part for me and my company. I have a business partner who I convinced to take a chance on a product that was neither fully developed, nor proven. We went out on a limb for rongineer and he decided to do nothing to sell them. I really had no other choice to do what I did.

As far as making more kits later, which is what rongineer refers to as stealing and having no ethics; I would just like to point out a few things, since he does not have a real grasp on reality.

I did not go out and market the product. Members came to me and asked for it. The agreement we were working on for me not to produce more fell through, because rongineer was unrealistic in his demands. It was also long before I spent a lot of my free time selling the kits I was stuck with. At that time I had incentive to sign an agreement, because it meant that he would buy the remaining kits from me. When he choose not to do so and leave it all up to me to sell them off, I really didn't see the point of signing a binding agreement. Talk about wanting your cake and eating it too.

If I wanted to mass produce these, I would have aggressively advertized them myself, which to this day I have not done.

After realizing that the Adapters and Nuts were already being "copied" by at least one other company, I really did not see how it would make a difference to help some members out and make a few kits for them. Please see for yourself:
http://www.epytec.de/radnaben-sonder...radnabe?c=1852

I could also share the pdf file that a fellow member from the German Forum forwarded to me, right after I attempted to sell the kits I was sitting on. The prints in that file are in metric and are virtually identical to the parts that rongineer came up with. It was not a new idea. IT EXISTED! Many times in life have I had an idea that I thought was unique and later found out somebody else already had it before me. When there is a common problem and a need for a solution, it is only natural that more than one person will come up with it. This conversion is not rocket science, as much as rongineer would like it think so.

Also, notice in his signature picture that one of the parts, the dust caps that allow for the hub centric extension of the wheel, is missing. That is because I came up with that idea after making all the other parts for him and we realized the kit was not working properly.

And as far as me making a ton of extra play money on all of this. Yes, I make shop rate on these kits, which includes a small profit margin. This is nowhere near what a retailer would sell them for. More importantly, I should add that when I had to sell the original kits off, I lost 3 kits......... 2 got damaged during shipping and one of them got lost. I also had to sell all the kits that went to Germany for a loss, because the high import taxes the EU has, prevented us from getting full asking price. Bottom line, we lost money on the first 50 kits, if I include all the extra time I spent selling them off.

I could have let all of these bygones be bygones, but rongineer felt the need to come out here guns blazing. So please, spear me the victim routine. You got what you deserved. Like you said, part of being an adult.