Guten Parts + Service - ZM Blue Devil

[hendrixvodu]

I will say one thing people can say it's a 20 year old AC system that's complete bullshit, 10 deg difference from outside temp is not acceptable I work on 1970's mercedes that are running almost all original ac components and are putting out 50-45 deg temps on an 85 deg day... Yes it's an old Ac system but this man was not paying $1200 to bandaid his original AC. That being said I have been to gps before and would not think twice about having work done there

[ThatOneEuroE30]

Sorry to hear about that levent is a good guy. BTW unless your lawyer is free your gonna be paying more for that lawyer then you will have on that system and a good chunk of a new one....

[bradnic]

Forgot to comment about the pressure switch. You're right, like the compressor that's definitely not a new part. Was there a rush on the job or something?

EDIT one more comment, because I think there's a range options to pursue before getting an attorney involved. yes it's a $1200 repair. in the grand scheme of things though, and as mentioned by others here, that's not an outrageous bill. Trashing someone's business over a $1200 repair is some serious serious sh%t.

Reach out to the community and you'll get the help you need - count me in.

[bradnic]

I've known Levent for as long as I've been here on r3v. He's one of the good guys. I'm sure he'll make it right. I think you posted this prematurely and should have waited until he got back from vacation to give him the opportunity to straighten this out.

^ this x 100.

Been dealing with Levent on all my cars for quite a while now. He's never steered my wrong, and when I've run in to problems he's made them right. Clearly something is wrong with your transaction. But you definitely should have posted to the transaction feedback thread as mentioned by robrez.

As to E30 A/C retrofit/repair, I have some opinions based on experience. I've done 3 DIY R134a E30 A/C retrofits using 3 different compressors (Bosch, Seiko Seiki and ND), on both pre and post 88 cars (different receiver/driers used in each). I also share your perception of gluchlich21's R134a retrofit DIY.

Here goes

1) that Behr receiver/drier is definitely a new part. It's absolutely not worth putting a used one in - it's just about the cheapest part in the retrofit anyway.

2) it's hard to know in advance everything that needs repairing on A/C. You find out as you go along. You stop the leaks, make sure you have good low/high pressure diffs, etc. Without that the AC just doesn't work right.

3) given the condition of that compressor it's no wonder your A/C isn't working properly. That Bosch compressor in the pic is absolutely NOT reman. It's an original R12 unit pulled off a late 80s car. I had the same one in my 88 IX coupe.

4) Every one of the my E30s had bad compressors, so as a rule I just automatically buy a reman unit. Best source price/quality wise for me has been TechChoice. Excellent service, fast ship and phenomenal prices. A Bosch reman compressor for E30 from them will run you about $245 or so plus ship, and it will be R134a ready (right seals etc).

5) Don't get hung up on Thailand this and Taiwan that. Get the compressor replaced with a reman first. It's highly likely the system will work just fine with those parts. Judging from the debris in there you'll need the lines flushed out.

6) You need an R134a expansion valve too. this is well documented in the DIY.

7) You'll need a new receiver drier. EVERY time you open the system you have to replace it. If you opened the system yourself you have to take the responsibility for replacing the drier, sealing the system, etc.

Again - don't assume you're being screwed here. Let him make things right, but at the same time, don't forget you opened the system up and need to take responsibility there. At a minimum you should get a reman compressor and new drier.

Drop me a PM if you have any questions.

[deutschman]

Sorry to hear that you have to deal with that crap! I will never get any work done by them or order parts with them!

Dont base your decisions on one thread. Read GPS's feed back thread on this forum and you will see he has very very high positive feedback. Every shop messes up and has unhappy customers. No one is perfect. If you stopped shopping at places because you knew of one single unhappy customer you would run out of service providers very quickly my friend.

[deutschman]

Maybe I missed it, but I didnt see anything in your post about contacting GPS about your problems and getting them fixed.
It is a general courtesy to first try and resolve your problems with a shop/individual before posting on the forum. He might have excellent explanations how why these things went wrong, or he might just say yeah I fucked up and Ill do my best to make things right.
Give the guys a chance to fix what may or may not be his mistakes before throwing him under the buss. Especially sins 99% of his feed back is positive.

[5ickride]

I've known Levent for as long as I've been here on r3v. He's one of the good guys. I'm sure he'll make it right. I think you posted this prematurely and should have waited until he got back from vacation to give him the opportunity to straighten this out.

[FLG]

Agree with the above.

I'm a personal friend of Levent but also was a customer at first. I hope this can be resolved in a good way. Also just because a part is slightly aged does not mean it isn't new. A lot of these parts sit on shelves some in damp places and they can build up some corrosion or what not on unpainted portions. That part number looks crisp in relation to the rest of the part.







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[Andy.B]

I didn't say I think Levant is blameless by any means.

But to be fair, $1200 is not expensive for ac work. Like I said, r134a is not cheap, nor is labor. With used parts, that is a pretty cheap job that looks like it needed to be straightened out as a 'comeback' (as it's called), not torn out and thrown in a box.

[Benjamin_Button]

As a former mechanic, who worked for a new car dealer, and used car dealer, I want to weigh in with a few observations...

One: AC systems (especially finicky 20+ year old ones) are temperamental.
Two: If the customer opened a sealed system, then complained about problems with it, they would be on their own. If the customer proceeded to take apart said sealed system, they are definitely on their own. That's just how it works.
Two: Dirt and surface corrosion are normal, and don't indicate the proper function of parts. Used good parts can fail. It sounds like he sourced used parts to keep costs down and it ran into problems, which unfortunately happens. If the customer brought it back to me intact I would address it as necessary.
Three: Using alternate brand oe fitment parts is the norm. Shops use a supplier for their parts. You use what the supplier can get you. Sometimes it's a different brand then expected. If it has a problem and the customer comes back, I'd take care of it. If they disassemble it, They are on their own.
Four: I don't know what Levant pays for r134a, but I am betting it is comparable to market prices where I live. If that is the case, a good portion of your bill is refrigerant alone (which was lost when the system was opened), and labor.
Five: The poorly soldered wire. If that happened at Levant's shop, that was a mistake... but mistakes happen. Moreover, that was a mistake with an easy fix.
Six: It's unfair of you to blame any shop for issues your car has that they didn't fix when they had it in for service... All those other issues? It's a 24 year old car. Things are going to constantly be breaking, unless you drop the money for a Cabriolet style restore. As a repair facility, it is hard to know where to draw the line between recommending 'safety' issues and 'annoyance' issues. When someone brings a car in but wants to be notified of every single charge when the bill varies by a few dollars (within a couple hundred on a large job like that), then it quickly becomes only 'safety' concerns. Diagnosis takes time, and if I don't think the customer is going to pay, I'm not going to keep diagnosing things. And FINDING the EXISTENCE of problems, not just the solution to problems, falls under the umbrella of diagnosing them.

As someone who worked in shops for 10+ years, and was lead technician for several of those, I will readily admit I am typically defensive on the side of a shop, but I don't see anything that seems to be unexpected. Shops get the parts that the supplier has available, and some small mistakes or misdiagnosis happen. It is unavoidable. But like I said, as a technician, if you take it apart after I work on it, it's your problem at that point.

While I see your point, he paid good money for work to be done that obviously was not. This cannot be merely brushed aside. He lives out of state so it would be impossible to simply "bring it back" to be corrected.

[Andy.B]

As a former mechanic, who worked for a new car dealer, and used car dealer, I want to weigh in with a few observations...

One: AC systems (especially finicky 20+ year old ones) are temperamental.
Two: If the customer opened a sealed system, then complained about problems with it, they would be on their own. If the customer proceeded to take apart said sealed system, they are definitely on their own. That's just how it works. And regarding the receiver/dryer, that needs to replaced if open for an extended period of time, but not every time the system is worked on. LEAVING it open means it junk. Leaving it open as part of a sealed (albeit low) system means it can still be used.
Two: Dirt and surface corrosion are normal, and don't indicate the proper function of parts. Used good parts can fail. It sounds like he sourced used parts to keep costs down and it ran into problems, which unfortunately happens. If the customer brought it back to me intact I would address it as necessary.
Three: Using alternate brand oe fitment parts is the norm. Shops use a supplier for their parts. You use what the supplier can get you. Sometimes it's a different brand then expected. If it has a problem and the customer comes back, I'd take care of it. If they disassemble it, They are on their own.
Four: I don't know what Levant pays for r134a, but I am betting it is comparable to market prices where I live. If that is the case, a good portion of your bill is refrigerant alone (which was lost when the system was opened), and labor.
Five: The poorly soldered wire. If that happened at Levant's shop, that was a mistake... but mistakes happen. Moreover, that was a mistake with an easy fix.
Six: It's unfair of you to blame any shop for issues your car has that they didn't fix when they had it in for service... All those other issues? It's a 24 year old car. Things are going to constantly be breaking, unless you drop the money for a Cabriolet style restore. As a repair facility, it is hard to know where to draw the line between recommending 'safety' issues and 'annoyance' issues. When someone brings a car in but wants to be notified of every single charge when the bill varies by a few dollars (within a couple hundred on a large job like that), then it quickly becomes only 'safety' concerns. Diagnosis takes time, and if I don't think the customer is going to pay, I'm not going to keep diagnosing things. And FINDING the EXISTENCE of problems, not just the solution to problems, falls under the umbrella of diagnosing them.

As someone who worked in shops for 10+ years, and was lead technician for several of those, I will readily admit I am typically defensive on the side of a shop, but I don't see anything that seems to be unexpected. Shops get the parts that the supplier has available, and some small mistakes or misdiagnosis happen. It is unavoidable. But like I said, as a technician, if you take it apart after I work on it, it's your problem at that point.

[Benjamin_Button]

This was very insightful. Sorry for your loss. I'm learning that a lot of shady stuff goes on unvoiced on these forums from very surprising people.

[robrez]

I'm not a moderator, but first off, you should not have started a new thread as there is already a Transaction Feedback thread for Levent and Guten Parts.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=172320

There is a reason for keeping all feedback in one thread - any experience you had, should be viewed in conjunction with his body of work. It's not to diminish your experience, but neither should one bad experience be highlighted.

[hyperE30]

Sorry to hear your bad experience. If you need a compressor shoot me a PM I'm local.

[Shadyhaze13]

Sorry to hear that you have to deal with that crap! I will never get any work done by them or order parts with them!