Guten Parts + Service - ZM Blue Devil

[dreamchasin]

From day 1 Levent has always been there for me to help troubleshoot problems. Even when I didn't buy the parts from him. He'd always answer my calls or messages and do his best. When I needed a part he would look it up for me and send me the info and we'd discuss it, I'd buy it and be on my way. I've always been a pain in the ass and he never turned his back on me. He's easily the best person I've ever dealt with buying parts and I will continue to do so. Thanks L you have a life long customer here.

[ChaosTheory]

Every company has it's issues. It's about how they resolve those issues and this doesn't look like it's been resolved in the favor of the customer. I wish you the best of luck and I truly hope this goes in your favor! Good luck

[structured]

I have always found Levent to be friendly and respectful. GPS provides a quality service and genuinely enhances the community of e30 owners. I say that not as a bandwagon fan, but as someone who has done a lot of business with his shop. Over the course of about six years I have bought parts from him, sold parts to him, shipped parts through his shop, and had him and his team install an engine which I built at home. There have been hiccups and there were times when things weren't exactly how I wanted. When things went wrong, I brought the car back and had it fixed. Sometimes I had to pay for those corrections and other times I didn't, depending on what had happened. On the whole, I am happy and I continue to deal with GPS and recommend their shop to others.

Like just about everyone else who is reading the posts above, I don't know Levent's side of this story. All I know is this:

1) When you buy used parts you get used parts. There is no warranty. They will work at the time that you drive off of the lot but, due to the nature of them being used, they may not work a month from now. If you want a guarantee then buy new parts.

2) Regarding the parts which you bought as new but found to be used: According to his statements, Levent truly believes that they installed new parts and has documentation to back that up. You haven't addressed the possibility that another shop swapped them while trying to fix the issues and you didn't realize. From Levent's viewpoint, he can't tell if you or another shop after him swapped those parts later on. Maybe GPS should have assumed the worst (i.e. that they made a mistake), gone with "the customer is always right" on this point, and offered to switch these parts for you. Still, you can easily see how both sides see it differently.

3) If something doesn't work you need to give the shop a chance to diagnose and remedy it themselves. It is tough when you are out of state but that burden is on you, not the shop. I have dealt with many shops which have this same policy. If this is not possible, another option is to take it to a reputable shop which can diagnose and make an impartial determination about what the cause was. Then you can negotiate more fairly with the original shop.

4) In the statement you quoted from Levent above, he offered to order you new parts less the money you already paid if you sent back the used ones. That was a fair offer. Simply refunding is not something that shops do. They installed parts and tested the system at the time it was in their possession. They can't just refund you every time a used part without a warranty stops working. Again, this is a standard policy.

EDIT: One more thing about e30 A/C is that I consistently hear people complain about how inadequate it is. There was a guy doing retrofits a while back and seemed to be using quality parts and doing good work. Still, many of his customers said that their A/C wasn't cold enough. The consensus that I was hearing at that time was that our pumps were made for the older gas which was more efficient. The new gas which is used today is less efficient and therefore the pump would have to work harder to get to the same temperature. Maybe your system wasn't running as cold as you expect from owning newer cars but it was actually running just as cold as everybody else's e30 A/C. Just a thought...

[jaywood]

We had the same situation with Vlad awhile back (don't get me wrong, Levent, I'm not comparing you to Vlad and his fuck-ups, just stating an example). 99% of this forum was on the guys' nuts and bashed anyone who tried to call him out on mistakes (remember that guy who received those damaged wheels? NOBODY believed him because it was VLAD who sent them to him. He was a GOD on r3v). All I'm getting at is go into these things with somewhat of an open mind. Everyone makes mistakes. Live and learn.

[bradnic]

I just hope no one else gets screwed by Ethan or Levent.

How altruistic. I'm just thankful I don't have to do business with you. I trust Levent, and I'm sure he will/would correct the situation given the chance - he's certainly done so with me. You must have made it very difficult on your end for him to do that.

[StereoInstaller1]

Yes, this forum is absolutely critical to all of our businesses, and we all know how quickly bad news travels.

I can say that in my own personal experience, I have always come out better for admitting my failures and doing my best to correct my mistakes.
In this case, all I can hope for is that all three of the parties involved can reach an amicable solution, as we all depend on this forum for virtually everything E30 related.

[Andy.B]

I find it incredibly stupid how everyone jumps on the bandwagon about how levent could never do no wrong and that goes for all the other ogs here like luke at gas George graves etc they have all fucked up some point and yet bc they were well known tge issues were juat pretty much swept under the rug...I've dealt with both of them and the are pleasant, but its clear that there was a fuck up here which I'm sure if this was a facee to face interaction this would have never happened. But you guys need to stop pretending that these guys can't fuck up bc they have all slipped at one point.

I don't think anyone is saying that no one made a mistake. The problem here is that a mistake doesn't mean someone is a scammer, out to rip people off at the first opportunity. Those other og's mistakes where all dealt with, and a far as I know, made right. People who fail to make it right, under reasonable circumstances, (cough Vlad cough) are the ones who get run out of the community.

Like I said, this isn't the work of a scammer. This is the result of poor communication and unequal expectations.

[agent]

Luke and George both owned up to their mistakes and, from my personal experiences with both of them and from what I've read, did everything they could to correct their respective issues. If Ethan or Levent - both of whom I've also done plenty of business with personally - have any fault in this, I'm confident they will/would do what's necessary to make it right.

All four of them have businesses which were built in no small part thanks to this community, so getting over on one of their/our own simply isn't worth it.

[bmwm42]

I find it incredibly stupid how everyone jumps on the bandwagon about how levent could never do no wrong and that goes for all the other ogs here like luke at gas George graves etc they have all fucked up some point and yet bc they were well known tge issues were juat pretty much swept under the rug...I've dealt with both of them and the are pleasant, but its clear that there was a fuck up here which I'm sure if this was a facee to face interaction this would have never happened. But you guys need to stop pretending that these guys can't fuck up bc they have all slipped at one point.

[8380 Labs]

OP: arrange for a reman bosch compressor, new dryer and pressure switch. already posted source for the compressor. all will be well once the system is purged and installed.

According to the car's FS thread here on R3V, it was sold last week sometime, so it seems this task would be left to the new new owner, should he deem it necessary.

[bradnic]

Seems to me we are getting to the bottom of things here.

OP: arrange for a reman bosch compressor, new dryer and pressure switch. already posted source for the compressor. all will be well once the system is purged and installed.

[Andy.B]

Your right! It just makes me mad when people that are so called experts take advantage of people who know less.

None of this reads like Levant took advantage of the op. It sounds like there was an issue of inconsistent expectations between the two parties, which was made worse by the lack of face to face communication.

As far as the actual work done, it looks like there were a few minor mistakes made in the repair that could have easily been addressed as problems arose, coupled with the fact that the op may have had higher expectations than the age of the car, or his budget, allowed. It does not sound like anyone intentionally took advantage of anyone.

I have seen people taken advantage of by dishonest shops, and I promise you, it looks much much worse than what we are seeing.

[Shadyhaze13]

E30

Dont base your decisions on one thread. Read GPS's feed back thread on this forum and you will see he has very very high positive feedback. Every shop messes up and has unhappy customers. No one is perfect. If you stopped shopping at places because you knew of one single unhappy customer you would run out of service providers very quickly my friend.

Your right! It just makes me mad when people that are so called experts take advantage of people who know less.

[8380 Labs]

Jon,

Without a ton of speculation or getting bogged down in a bunch of he said/he said stuff, it's clear there are some misaligned expectations here. I'll address cars and professionalism.

I'm very comfortable with the way the car was represented in the sale ad - the numerous, in depth phone communications we had (with regular frequency, up to a month after the transaction had been completed) and the extensive collection of receipts/documentation you received all supported that. In fact, the other interested party who I had mentioned to you (who saw the car in person and test drove it shortly after we first spoke) made the same offer within 12 hours of you. Despite the fact that a local sale would have been quicker and much easier for me, I honored the fact that you had made the offer first, and respected your enthusiasm and the report we had developed.

You bought a 24 year old car you were totally unfamiliar with (the specific car and e30s in general) sight unseen over the internet, from across the country. Without even speculating about your personal expectation levels, this is a perfect recipe for dissonance. Your thread on R3V shows you replacing quite a few brand new parts, (with less than 500 miles and supporting documentation - both listed in the FS ad and explained to you over the phone) claiming they were worn or overdue for replacement (a developing trend?), chasing down perceived issues of every kind. You even publicly disparaged a vendor (another developing trend?), who supplied me with parts for the car while it was under my ownership, for not "supporting" a product they did not sell to you (that was by your own words functioning properly).

While some of the posters in this thread have applauded the way you've presented your case, it's my understanding that you haven't been quite as pleasant or professional privately - in fact you've been incredibly rude and insulting in a very personal way. This is counter to the calm professionalism you've received at each step - no surprise to anyone who's done business with Levent.

You're entitled to be unhappy, but the situation's resolution should be between you and Guten. This disagreement didn't happen in a vacuum, and regardless of your body of work as an E30 owner, or Guten's great track record, the online smear campaign/witch hunt is way out of line.

-Ethan

P.S. You might want to reread the confidentiality notice at the bottom of emails.

P.P.S. Maybe an E30 wasn't a good fit for you?

[MR 325]

Went ahead and merged your thread with the existing thread.