Massive Brakes - Stay Away!

[psyber_0ptix]

i'd be interested in seeing the PM's that were sent between the two. That way we can see the true drama behind this argument. PrintScreen!

[kishg]

It is not at all appropriate to ask a customer to deal with a parts supplier directly and Lee, you of all people should know this. To suggest otherwise is absurd. This install was backed by AVA Restoration as a company and has been handled as such

Are you or AVA Restorations a Massive Brakes supplier/distributor?

[kishg]

Your religion still pretty dope? I'm doing a term paper on ancient religions, and Jainism isn't on the list, so I might be studying up on your ways. lol


Back to the two sided thread.

ummm i'm an atheist, so yeah, it's pretty dope :)

[Pudmunkie]

There were probably better ways to handle the situation on both sides.

For me personally I'll be avoiding Massive due to Lee's behavior when UUC released their brake kits; not very professional.

[KenC]

Can it be proven that the rotors were/are indeed warped? That would settle all arguments. Vibration doesn't necessarily mean warped rotors. In fact, that wouldn't even be first on my list of things to check.

[KenC]

Brendan, did you put a dial gauge on the car to measure disc runout? If not, then I would say you don't have much of a case, and your post borders on libel.

Word.

[kishg]

I'd never buy from him due to years of America bashing, judgmental Canadian posts from him but that is another issue totally.

lol. then your not going to get too far in any business dealings in the real world with that attitude. trash talk on off-topic/pr is one thing and business is another. I would not blacklist a vendor simply because they had a different personal opinion on something than me. i've never bought anything from lee (well maybe a dead pedal) but i've only heard good things about his product and service from lots of folks whose opinions I trust.

[Massive Lee]

Here are the first exchanges between Brendan and myself

Hey Lee,
So I ended up selling off my street kit to one of my customers to pay for the body work on my shell (basically, it's an excuse to get a race kit once I start putting the car together) but he's complaining of a shimmy now. I guess it appeared a few days after installation although in all honesty I didn't really feel it when I drove the car. As they say though, the customer is always right, so I figured I'd talk to you about warrantying out the rotors (they're you're new two-piece street kit rotors) or finding something to suggest to the customer to make him happy. I balanced the wheels and that didn't seem to fix it...
Thanks Lee!
~Brendan "

My first reply.

Originally Posted by Massive Lee
Hi Brendan
Whay makes you think the problem is with the rotors? Could it be with the car's suspension, which is the usual culprit? Loose balljoints, wrong alignment.
Lee

Brendan's

"Because we've been doing this for 15 years Lee... We also just overhauled the whole front end so and the shimmy wasn't there before the brake install. Like I said, I'm not convinced the problem is really a problem but it's still a customer service issue that I have to address...
Thanks!
Brendan"

"Hi Brendan. I fully undserstand the idea of customer service, but before I change rotors, I have to make sure they are the problem. There might be an uneven layer of transfer, they might be warped. If the guy had braked hard repetevily then kept the car still with the brakes applied, there's now some shit cooked in the rotor. Have ou measured if there was some run-out on the rotor?

Lee"

"My boss went over them and assured me they were warped. I'm sure the hats are fine, we just want to swap out the rotors. I'll order a set of street pads too, the car won't be seeing as much track time as mine would have so the track pads aren't needed.

Thanks!
Brendan"

And so on, and so on. Basically. When Brandon had the kit, there was no problem at all and he was very satisfied. Then he sells the parts. His customer complains about vibrations, Brendan tests the car and sees no vibration at all but claims I should replace the rotors anyway to make HIS customer happy. Then claims his boss said the rotors were warped. Strange, as Brandon never felt anything. But is claiming the discs are warped while saying there's no vibration at all is a good enough excuse to get new rotors? I don't think so. There's something fishy in this story because if the rotors had indeed been warped, an expert mechanic like Brendan would have noticed right away.If new rotors are unproprly bedded-in (especially with track pads) then some uneven deposits could have altered the rotor's surface. What really happened? I don't know.

I have several sets of rotors here. Some even being gold anodized for testing. It would have been eay t get rid of this irritation and broom the problem under the carpet just by sending a set of discs. But there's one problem. The rotors are clearly not at fault (how come then suddenly the boss reports they are warped when Brendan says they are okay and he feels no shimmy). Somebody isn't telling me everything.

BTW There's no reason for this thread to turn into a name calling contest. I have no grief either against Brendan. I just wished he had sent new owner directly to me instead of simply protecting his ass as a self-appointed Massive distributor...

Peace to all.

PS Can't wait to showcase the new 14" (355mm) e36 kit with AP Racing calipers.

[briansjacobs]

yet one more issue as it was a used street kit that had under admission had seen heavy track use, may be the calipers need to be rebuilt. I am not trying to take sides here but it sounds like OP is just trying to throw parts at the problem and hope that it goes away. If you feel the part should be warrantied explain why, not "because it is a customer service issue" but because "I measured the rotor all the way the way around and it varried from x-y or we put a straight edge on it and it was clearly warped, her is a high res picture for you consideration"

when I had problems with rocker arms wearing out I took high res pictures of them sent them to supplier and they promptly returned my money. But I provided proof, not my word, but proof the product was faulty.

Did the op send the rotors back to the supplier for examination?

[Imagine_M]

I Think Proof was the word I used?...

As for lee being unresponsive there wasn't anything more to say it was clear he stated his answer.

And as for mr F... why so rude and name calling makes your business look like lil kids.

[briansjacobs]

BTW if the kit used wilwood brakes, the rebuild kit is $9 and I think should be done once a year.

[briansjacobs]

either way, track car used harder, street car used more often. Lee could probably comment better. I keep a rebuild kit in my spares at the track, otherwise I do it every season needed or not

[Philo]

I would like to see pictures of the rotors with a caliper on them. It's not hard to do, it would answer a bunch of questions, and it would provide something solid and definite.

All in favor?

[Fidhle007]

The kit was tracked once under my ownership and performed flawlessly until the end of the day when things got too hot for the one-piece rotors. Once everything cooled down it was back to normal. This was my motivation for buying two-piece rotors in the first place.

So why then, when a kit performs flawlessly under my ownership should I suspect anything else but the brand new parts that have been replaced before reinstallation? Everything else on the front end of the car was new so it certainly wasn't a suspension issue.

I think the communication train Lee posted is pretty clear: customer of my company has brakes installed, is unhappy, company owner verifies issue, I contact Lee (and rather nicely I might add) asking for help and get "Ball joints? Alignment?" A simple "I can't afford to send you free rotors, how about some at cost so you can install them and send me back the old ones for analysis?" would have been perfectly adequate. But no, Lee has never had an issue so why should he start now?

You can see exactly how I'm attempting to communicate with Lee in my first message, as a friend and colleague, not as a pissed off customer. His responses were condescending and unhelpful. I specifically asked for suggestions OTHER then replacement because I know Lee runs a small potatoes show and doesn't want to ship out free shit. But no, I get two condescending responses and then nothing. Where he stopped pasting is where he stopped responding. Not fucking cool, man.

[Philo]

Seems reasonable but it's also fun to judge based on innuendo and speculation :P

Forget it, Donny, you're out of your element!