Is 350K+ on the chassis too much for a swap?

[rThor432]

Yeah, the guy at Vines as well as other knowledgeable people have said (this may be common knowledge, but I never thought about this) that BMW bottom-ends are robust and are good for 300K. It's the head that is the weak point, so I would imagine a well maintained six can last up to 300K?

I've replaced cylinder heads on 200k M/S50's just because the headgasket is seeping excessively. No damage, just time to replace it. The heads are usually dead straight (unless they were cooked, in which case the gasket isnt just seeping..). I've never seen one that didnt still have nice factory cross-hatching in the cylinder bores. Well, maybe a couple whose owners diligently follow the dealer's oil schedule (15k), but even those were rock solid. Of course, everything goes out the door on the track. I've seen plenty of bottom ends blown up, but that was driver error.

It's common knowledge that the single cam M10/20/30 motors are some of the most bullet proof engines ever, but I've pulled heads on a bunch of those because of failed head gaskets with 300k+ on them. 98% of the time the bottom ends are dead solid with perfect bores that look like they have fresh hones.

So yes, BMW's bottom ends are awesome.

[markseven]

Hmmmmm, that makes me wonder if they really sold me an S52 then, it has the correct VIN and oil filter housing....

They sold me a complete S52 for $1700 after haggling at the time I also paid 200ish for a Getrag 260, 175 for the E34 pan setup, $100 for a red label DME.

...Or maybe the shit they sold wasn't as in good a condition as he said it was in, but they have a pretty good reputation.

Or possibly I just caught him on a good day?

I would like to think you caught him on a good day ;)

They do put a 6 month unlimited mileage warranty on their engines. And claim that they only sell motors with both compression/leakdown in spec.

We will find out once I get mine in.

Yeah, let us know what happens...

For comparison, my 70k S52 cost me ~$3500 (from Strictly German by Road Atlanta). I think shipping was included in that figure (I never paid it if it wasnt..). The 6-speed that I've tracked down is ~$2000, but has all of the bits set up for an E30. No idea on the miles of that, but it goes through the gears fine.

Sounds like a good deal to me, especially if you can get the maintenance history for the motor. I guess 140k is fairly high mileage, but with decent maintenance it should still be very solid. The S52 in my M3 has ~165k on it and is as strong ever.

Yeah, the guy at Vines as well as other knowledgeable people have said (this may be common knowledge, but I never thought about this) that BMW bottom-ends are robust and are good for 300K. It's the head that is the weak point, so I would imagine a well maintained six can last up to 300K?

MArk, don't know how I missed this thread, but I am jealous!

If you want some turner stuff, let me know, I should still be able to get wholesale on it...

Bless you my child. I will call you RIGHT NOW!

The problem is not the 350kmi - which is bad in and of itself - it's the 10 years of tracking. That car will have so much chassis flex - especially in the front tower area - that I would not take it as a DD stock, much less put an S50 in it.
As to the prices for S50 and trans, the trans is a good price, the S50 is expensive.

Yeah, there are some interior squeaks and rattles, but it's not like the doors wont open and one corner of the windshield pops out when one side is in the air for an oil change :D, but I started this thread because there is some concern with exactly what you said.

[nmlss2006]

The problem is not the 350kmi - which is bad in and of itself - it's the 10 years of tracking. That car will have so much chassis flex - especially in the front tower area - that I would not take it as a DD stock, much less put an S50 in it.
As to the prices for S50 and trans, the trans is a good price, the S50 is expensive.

[devonjordan]

MArk, don't know how I missed this thread, but I am jealous!

If you want some turner stuff, let me know, I should still be able to get wholesale on it...

[rThor432]

I was quoted $3500 for a complete S50 with 140K on her, and he will bundle a 6-speed with 80K on it for an additional $1200. + $250 for shipping... does this sound fair?

For comparison, my 70k S52 cost me ~$3500 (from Strictly German by Road Atlanta). I think shipping was included in that figure (I never paid it if it wasnt..). The 6-speed that I've tracked down is ~$2000, but has all of the bits set up for an E30. No idea on the miles of that, but it goes through the gears fine.

Sounds like a good deal to me, especially if you can get the maintenance history for the motor. I guess 140k is fairly high mileage, but with decent maintenance it should still be very solid. The S52 in my M3 has ~165k on it and is as strong ever.

[z31maniac]

True, they have been pretty good with just that one exception. They did well for me at the last autox I went to as well. Perhaps I might try the HP+ pads if I cant get something made for the car until I decide to just get the massive kit.

As for the $3500 s50, thats a little high for the mileage unless it comes with a good warranty and compression/leakdown info. Good price on the trans however. For reference I got my s50 for $1250 needing a full bottom end rebuild and put $1500 into it with machine work, pistons, bearings, rings, and gaskets. All in all a brand new bottom end with a refreshed head for less than 3k.

They do put a 6 month unlimited mileage warranty on their engines. And claim that they only sell motors with both compression/leakdown in spec.

We will find out once I get mine in.

[z31maniac]

Thanks dude! I just called and spoke with Martin. I don't know your real name, but I told him that z31maniac sent me.

I was quoted $3500 for a complete S50 with 140K on her, and he will bundle a 6-speed with 80K on it for an additional $1200. + $250 for shipping... does this sound fair?

Hmmmmm, that makes me wonder if they really sold me an S52 then, it has the correct VIN and oil filter housing....

They sold me a complete S52 for $1700 after haggling at the time I also paid 200ish for a Getrag 260, 175 for the E34 pan setup, $100 for a red label DME.

...Or maybe the shit they sold wasn't as in good a condition as he said it was in, but they have a pretty good reputation.

Or possibly I just caught him on a good day?

[markseven]

As for the $3500 s50, thats a little high for the mileage unless it comes with a good warranty and compression/leakdown info. Good price on the trans however. For reference I got my s50 for $1250 needing a full bottom end rebuild and put $1500 into it with machine work, pistons, bearings, rings, and gaskets. All in all a brand new bottom end with a refreshed head for less than 3k.

Good to know. Thank you.

[EtaSport]

HT-10s will be extremely noisy on the street if you've tracked them at all.. they were pretty quiet before with just street miles on them though. HPS are horrible for the track so not surprised you overheated them after only a few laps, that was my experience as well. I do like them on the street though, low dust and plenty of stopping power for daily driving.

True, they have been pretty good with just that one exception. They did well for me at the last autox I went to as well. Perhaps I might try the HP+ pads if I cant get something made for the car until I decide to just get the massive kit.

As for the $3500 s50, thats a little high for the mileage unless it comes with a good warranty and compression/leakdown info. Good price on the trans however. For reference I got my s50 for $1250 needing a full bottom end rebuild and put $1500 into it with machine work, pistons, bearings, rings, and gaskets. All in all a brand new bottom end with a refreshed head for less than 3k.

[nando]

would you run ht-10s on the street? (car doesnt see a whole lot of driving) I've had some stopping issues with my hps pads after a few hot laps with my s50. Im possibly having a set of pads made for my car from federal mogul's Italian engineers.

HT-10s will be extremely noisy on the street if you've tracked them at all.. they were pretty quiet before with just street miles on them though. HPS are horrible for the track so not surprised you overheated them after only a few laps, that was my experience as well. I do like them on the street though, low dust and plenty of stopping power for daily driving.

[nando]

My stock $30 rotors with Hawk HT-10's locks up V710 r-comps easily at any speed, even after many laps. They don't even come close to fading. I don't think the addition of an s52 would change this so drastically that I would NEED bigger brakes. And if it did, I could go with a higher temp-range pad. The brake size is not an issue. Bigger brakes are for more consistent pedal feel and usually offer better modulation, etc... I'm still running stock rotors HPS's on my m50 car, that thing is probably 2900 lbs, and the brakes feel great. A buddy of mine has an s52 in his e30 and that seems to stop fine as well with stock rotors.

this depends on the track. I can definitely overheat my brakes with HT-10s, and I'm not sure I could lock up or engage ABS from 100mph on R888s. It's definitely a step up from street pads, but I can tell I'd enjoy the extra reserve capacity of a BBK, instead of driving my brakes to the edge of meltdown all the time.

[markseven]

Just a note to your sig, call Vines Automotive in Alabama and speak to David.

He has been incredibly helpful on getting me parts in a timely at very fair prices. I'm paying less for parts from with a guarantee then I've been able to find on the forums/eBay/craigslist.

Thanks dude! I just called and spoke with Martin. I don't know your real name, but I told him that z31maniac sent me.

I was quoted $3500 for a complete S50 with 140K on her, and he will bundle a 6-speed with 80K on it for an additional $1200. + $250 for shipping... does this sound fair?

[z31maniac]

Just a note to your sig, call Vines Automotive in Alabama and speak to David.

He has been incredibly helpful on getting me parts in a timely at very fair prices. I'm paying less for parts from with a guarantee then I've been able to find on the forums/eBay/craigslist.

[markseven]

I put an S52 into my 250k+ chassis. I havent had any problems. Except a knock sensor and VANOS giving up on me. But the chassis is fine, no ripping or tearing.

No problems with braking either. My S52 E30 eta stops just as well as my S52 E36 M3. I've got the 5-lug stuff in the garage and it's been collecting dust because I dont have any real need to do it (and I'm waiting for the fall temperature).

In response to the comment about the 350k+ chassis having been tracked for the past 10 years-- I have a friend who has tracked his 250whp turbo E30 since ~'92. The car was built in '89 and has been driven everywhere. No ripped or torn sheet metal anywhere. The car shows no signs of fatigue other than the diff bolts backing out every few years. They havent done that in a while though, the Loctite did the trick.

The higher the milage, especially if tracked, the more "loose" the chasis will be, though I bet most would not be able to tell the difference.

Nothing seam welding and a full cage cannot fix. ;)

Thanks guys.

As for the cage, this is my DD, so no cage. Sometime when money isn't an object, I would love to strip the interior, seem weld and then reapply the sound deadener and reinstall the full interior...

[mazur]

The higher the milage, especially if tracked, the more "loose" the chasis will be, though I bet most would not be able to tell the difference.

Nothing seam welding and a full cage cannot fix. ;)