whats needed to make m50 reliable for d/d

[SamE30e]

I absolutely agree with this statement, by the way. Swapping in a NV motor doesnt make sense to me and I dont think it is worth the effort at all.

I resent that. My NV is just as fast as my buddies M50 Vanos swap. Only mods I have that he doesn't is a Dinan chip and the 4.10lsd (Stock but if you want to call it a mod you can.)

[rThor432]

And the NV doesn't have many upgrade options (not counting turbo). But who wants a giant snail complicating things for a DD?

...And if you want a snail, it will work [about] just as well on a 12v M20 as the 24v NV motor. A friend did a bit over 400hp with a stock M20, I dont think you could get much more from a NV M50.

I resent that. My NV is just as fast as my buddies M50 Vanos swap. Only mods I have that he doesn't is a Dinan chip and the 4.10lsd (Stock but if you want to call it a mod you can.)

Well, I guess I can expand my statement to include vanos M50's as well. I know I sound like an ass for saying it (dont mean to..) but I wouldnt swap in a vanos 2.5l either. I bet it is fun with the 4.10 though.

[mark247]

I resent that. My NV is just as fast as my buddies M50 Vanos swap. Only mods I have that he doesn't is a Dinan chip and the 4.10lsd (Stock but if you want to call it a mod you can.)

Nothing wrong with NV M50s, same power as vanos pretty much, less to fuck out also.

When i had a vanos e36 it couldnt keep up with my mates non vanos m50 e30. I stand by them :)

...And if you want a snail, it will work [about] just as well on a 12v M20 as the 24v NV motor. A friend did a bit over 400hp with a stock M20, I dont think you could get much more from a NV M50.


Well, I guess I can expand my statement to include vanos M50's as well. I know I sound like an ass for saying it (dont mean to..) but I wouldnt swap in a vanos 2.5l either. I bet it is fun with the 4.10 though.

I know a guy here making over 400hp on a standard nv m50 ( different headgasket only i think. )

[rThor432]

I know a guy here making over 400hp on a standard nv m50 ( different headgasket only i think. )

Yeah, I'm just saying that it's a lot of work to swap the motor and not see more of a gain. He made 430 hp (flywheel) with a 180k stock M20, including the original headgasket.

[mark247]

Yeah, I'm just saying that it's a lot of work to swap the motor and not see more of a gain. He made 430 hp (flywheel) with a 180k stock M20, including the original headgasket.

I disagree. M50 swap is a pretty cheap 20hp in my opinion.

An m50 does have a lot more potential than an m20. M20s are a strong engine but after driving my car car with an m20b25, dropping the m50 in over a week, and then driving it again oh my god it's at a totally new level really.

[Wh33lhop]

The NV is a peakier motor. Powerband is up high, more fun if you ask me. The TU has more usable torque and a wider powerband, but it's also lower in the rev range and power falls off faster. I think the NV is more akin to the M20B25's behavior, and also isn't prone to that nice vanos rattle.

Having said all that, I'm doing an NV swap and am doing oil pump nut loctite, new water pump w/metal impeller, oil pan gasket, and (maybe) injector o-rings. The plan is to yank the motor in a year or so and put in something bigger. Think it's really worth it to do the timing chain tensioners? Motor has 180k on it... I just want it to be nice, no problems or funny noises until I pull it in a year or so. If I should be tackling a bit more simple maintenance while it's out of the car I can do that.

[mark247]

The NV is a peakier motor. Powerband is up high, more fun if you ask me. The TU has more usable torque and a wider powerband, but it's also lower in the rev range and power falls off faster. I think the NV is more akin to the M20B25's behavior, and also isn't prone to that nice vanos rattle.

Having said all that, I'm doing an NV swap and am doing oil pump nut loctite, new water pump w/metal impeller, oil pan gasket, and (maybe) injector o-rings. The plan is to yank the motor in a year or so and put in something bigger. Think it's really worth it to do the timing chain tensioners? Motor has 180k on it... I just want it to be nice, no problems or funny noises until I pull it in a year or so. If I should be tackling a bit more simple maintenance while it's out of the car I can do that.

You could compare the power to a nv m50 to a m20, but in saying that the m20b25's I owned have always run out of puff at about 5500rpm or so, where as the m50 just revs it's nuts off all the way to the limiter at 6500.

180,000miles? I'd say do as much as you can. When I dropped my motor in it had only only 140,000kilometers so I didn't bother with anything other than oil and filter, and it's running fine.

[416stroker]

Shit I have a 99k mile N/V and its a great motor. Its a lot better than my old 2.7I. If I wouldnt have gotten laid off last year it would have a Nice snail on it.

[jrdeamicis]

Ok, let me flip this and argue for the NV.

The M20 Bad.

Rubber band
Distributor caps that are costly
12V
Not many upgrade options that allow for a good useable power band

The m50NV bad

No vanos
Expensive tensionsers and rails to replace.
Lots to change to make work for car and in some ways doesnt fit right but people accept it
No mechanical fan possibility unless you run the 318is radiator (which is too small for a 24v imo)
Gasket sets are more money
Parts are more money
Completely garbage cooling systems unless sorted.
Lifters are not cheap

M20 Good
Parts are cheap
The parts are everywhere
Bulletproof in some ways
Simple engine control management which makes diagnosis easier
Will take a snail like a mofo
Megasquirt support is huge



M50 Good
Timing chain (200k mile items)
No vanos is nice for people who like to keep it simple.
No Rockers



So if you like to spend more money for 20hp (which can be had out of a good megasquirt tune) the M50 seems to be the way to go.

But when you need to overhaul your cooling system, replace all of your lifters, replace your timing system, I would want to at least get a little more power. At least a 2.8.

[MIKe30]

But when you need to overhaul your cooling system, replace all of your lifters, replace your timing system, I would want to at least get a little more power. At least a 2.8.

I'd say don't waste money on an m50...blahblah...

If you want to refresh and blah blah, save up for an m52 and do it. you'll be more likely to keep that motor in there longer. just my .02

.

[jrdeamicis]

Yeah, I spend a lot of money on my car but its just retarded fun. Giggle inducing machine. Check in with Apexhead, or ubere30.

I don't think a NVM50 is giggle inducing.

[416stroker]

I would chose a m52 over a m50 anyday. I regret not buying the m52. I had to pick between the nv the m52. When I first bought my engine and I regret not going with the m52. I was just a little nervous about keeping it obd2. There was only one obd2 swap on the forum at the time done. I didn't want to fuck with ews and shit.

I wouldn't hesitate to swap in a m50 over a dead m20.
But I'd got with a M52 at least if I did it again.

JR I have a mechnical fan and I'm not running a m42 Rad, It is doable.

[SamE30e]

Ok, let me flip this and argue for the NV.

The m50NV bad

No vanos
Expensive tensionsers and rails to replace.
Lots to change to make work for car and in some ways doesnt fit right but people accept it
No mechanical fan possibility unless you run the 318is radiator (which is too small for a 24v imo)
Gasket sets are more money
Parts are more money
Completely garbage cooling systems unless sorted.
Lifters are not cheap

.

I could do the swap in a day if I had all the parts

Comparable to the M20 except for the big stuff, but a M50 NV in good condition runs about 500$ tops.

My coolant temp never goes over half

See above

[Wh33lhop]

You could compare the power to a nv m50 to a m20, but in saying that the m20b25's I owned have always run out of puff at about 5500rpm or so, where as the m50 just revs it's nuts off all the way to the limiter at 6500.

I meant more "in spirit." ;) The M20B25 is the kind of motor where life starts at about 4000rpm (and usually ends at around 6 grand, but still sounds cool until 7). The NV has similar behavior, just with more area under the curve and a longer powerband (nice to know it pulls to redline). The TU is different though, pulling through the full rev range, but not quite as rewarding to bang through the gears.

180,000miles? I'd say do as much as you can. When I dropped my motor in it had only only 140,000kilometers so I didn't bother with anything other than oil and filter, and it's running fine.

Again, only for a year. If changing the t-chain and tensioners isn't too expensive or arduous I can take it on, but as I recall it's also the timing gears that get worn out. If I have to start replacing that shit to ensure the motor will last, I'm not going to bother with timing equipment at all.

Yeah, I spend a lot of money on my car but its just retarded fun. Giggle inducing machine. Check in with Apexhead, or ubere30.

I don't think a NVM50 is giggle inducing.

It's not, but it's fairly quick for an E30, plus you typically get a good bump in mileage which is always nice. For a $500 motor I'd say it's not half bad, throw a chip, lightened flywheel and 4.10 at it and run it till it pops, then drop in that S52 you've been building up in the meantime.

[B3M2W5]

I have an M50tu that was pulled at 190K (all tho owned bya good friend that meticulisly(?) took care of car an motor. All i did was a pan gasket (needed with diff oil pan an pick-up). Cam Sen, Crank Sen Knock sens's. The metal fin water pump was already in there, but i did the alumin T-stat housing and T-stat. But other then that its been untouched.
I have had the engine in 2 diff cars, it has Ebay headers (shity exhaust tho), no fan, Intake( a duh with 24V), and a TurnerMotorsports chip.
I rev this motor all over the place, auto cross, and (spirited driving)
This motor blows away my other motors. Ofcorse both were eta's, newest one was a 88 super eta but.
I daily drive this car every day, I do run 15w-50 Mob 1 synth tho.
The only complaint is that i have a 2.93lsd. But it runs on the hyway have had it up over 150mph acording to the speed in 4th and still pulling. Second gear is my fave from about 40 to 80. The headers are what bumped the powerband up, above 4k its a scooter.
Thats my .02 but if i had to do it agin i would have waited for an S52.