S50 euro vs S50 US

[Be30mer]

Very well put... spot on.

E24/E28 M6-M635csi/M5 owners did in fact have US versions crippled compared to ROW S38 motors. (headers, compression etc)

S14 in US never got the cool homogulation versions ROW got, but can't really say the S14 here was crippled vs ROW, most were the same.

The US e36 M3 engine pretty much first showed up as a beefed up 325 engine from the tuners in europe to fill a gap before the S50B30 came out...(Alpina, Schnitzer etc) March 2002 Total BMW details the Schnitzer S3 3.0, how they beat Alpina (and BMW) to the punch. Schnitzer had a custom crank made to stroke from 2.5 to 3 liters with an 86m stroke, and bored from 84 to 85.5mm, using custom forged pistons. Power output was (surprise) 240 HP. Think BMW wasn't watching? Numbers look familiar? These conversions were done as early as 92, well before the US spec M3 came out, or the euro M3....

Only canada saw about 50 S50B30 engined cars...NA never really got M motors in E36 M3 cars.

With the S54, we did get a slightly detuned vesion due to cats in the headers. But at least the guts of the engine were identical to ROW. We never got the CSL version of that engine.

Being Green has certainly cost the US market many of the hottest engines BMW has offered.

shit. you rlly know your stuff

[Ray Smoodiver]

No, of the people on the forum to bait, Eric ain't one of them, and certainly not to as respected member of the BMW community as you are, Alex.

Though to be fair, the S50B30 doesn't have EWS, does it?

[M3 euro ltw]

WOB redux

Hi Alex, welcome to the site!

I need to delete my EWS on my S50B30 that's going into my E30, how do you suggest i do this? My ECU is a silver label 075.

thanks

Eric

I'm a relative newb to the forum...he's baiting me, right guys?

[Eric]

Sorry for WOB

Hi Alex, welcome to the site!

I need to delete my EWS on my S50B30 that's going into my E30, how do you suggest i do this? My ECU is a silver label 075.

thanks

Eric

[Charlie]

The US ones aren't even weaker/crippled versions, but a completely different motor. That statement could work for other motors which had slightly more power in Europe.
The US s50 should never even have been called an s50. It's an m50b30 or an m52b32.

Erik

So a standard BMW sedan with a high-end model that won't pass US standards and costs a bunch, replaced in the USDM with a stroked version of the standard motor, and sells a ton.

Worked for the 2002, worked for the E36 M3.

-Charlie

[FredK]

Ha! This is r3vlimited. Topics are rarely topical!

To the original poster, there are plenty of other modifications that can be done to an S50US to increase its power by a LOT. But, as with many engines, when you're chasing power, you better have an open wallet.

[M3 euro ltw]

RE: power difference

we did get the crappy headers, and the compression is a little lower (9.8:1 vs 10.5:1) but the power difference (30 hp or so) can largely be made up just by getting rid of the cat since it is so restrictive on the US cars. we did get the duplex timing chain, which is nice.

Now I remember this..... The euro version of the engine was 286, the same number they picked for the S50B30 engine, sort of in tribute I'm sure, as they can fudge either way quite a bit....

The US versions were 256, as you say. Dyno shows close to 30 HP difference taking the cats off?

Peace... not trying to start a war about S38/M88 in a M50 vs S50 thread.

I used to be a Nut about the S38 trivia when I had one. Wait, I still do, just haven't driven it in 2.5 years, the E34 M5 that is partially sold!

Sorry for WOB

[hugh jass]

I thought (and I could be wrong) that we got crappy headers, and they got the "bundle o-snakes" on those cars. It was the case for the M6 at least, I had one of those, and often considered upgrading to the eurospec headers. I though compression was different as well, and I was pretty sure they ran a lighter (more dangerous!) single chain as well. Correct me if I'm wrong... I can take it.

we did get the crappy headers, and the compression is a little lower (9.8:1 vs 10.5:1) but the power difference (30 hp or so) can largely be made up just by getting rid of the cat since it is so restrictive on the US cars. we did get the duplex timing chain, which is nice.

[M3 euro ltw]

the only thing really limiting power on the us e28 m5 compared to the rest of the world is the catalytic converter. without a cat, the us s38b35 makes almost as much power as the m88. i've got the dyno charts to prove it.

I thought (and I could be wrong) that we got crappy headers, and they got the "bundle o-snakes" on those cars. It was the case for the M6 at least, I had one of those, and often considered upgrading to the eurospec headers. I though compression was different as well, and I was pretty sure they ran a lighter (more dangerous!) single chain as well. Correct me if I'm wrong... I can take it.

At least a quick peak at realoem.com confirms the header issue, I'm almost positive they had higher compression as well. It is hard to believe that higher compression, less drag, better headers don't add up to more power. But I suppose a dyno of two individual cars could prove otherwise. I'm sure the de-catting of the older cars made a difference, that was well known, ie fahey track pipes etc.... But there were still fundamental differences that must have made a difference that would be noticeable.

With respect to being green costing us... yeah, earlier cars yes, later cars, not so much.... by the time E36 differences came about, I'd agree it was more $$ than green. But on the S54, cold starts and cat location, thats pure Green, not money...gotta heat the cats up fast.

[hugh jass]

Very well put... spot on.

E24/E28 M6-M635csi/M5 owners did in fact have US versions crippled compared to ROW S38 motors. (headers, compression etc)

S14 in US never got the cool homogulation versions ROW got, but can't really say the S14 here was crippled vs ROW, most were the same.

The US e36 M3 engine pretty much first showed up as a beefed up 325 engine from the tuners in europe to fill a gap before the S50B30 came out...(Alpina, Schnitzer etc) March 2002 Total BMW details the Schnitzer S3 3.0, how they beat Alpina (and BMW) to the punch. Schnitzer had a custom crank made to stroke from 2.5 to 3 liters with an 86m stroke, and bored from 84 to 85.5mm, using custom forged pistons. Power output was (surprise) 240 HP. Think BMW wasn't watching? Numbers look familiar? These conversions were done as early as 92, well before the US spec M3 came out, or the euro M3....

Only canada saw about 50 S50B30 engined cars...NA never really got M motors in E36 M3 cars.

With the S54, we did get a slightly detuned vesion due to cats in the headers. But at least the guts of the engine were identical to ROW. We never got the CSL version of that engine.

Being Green has certainly cost the US market many of the hottest engines BMW has offered.

the only thing really limiting power on the us e28 m5 compared to the rest of the world is the catalytic converter. without a cat, the us s38b35 makes almost as much power as the m88. i've got the dyno charts to prove it.

[dirtysix]

Being Green has certainly cost the US market many of the hottest engines BMW has offered.

Not sure it had much to do with the US being green.
More of a cost issue me thinks.

The true S50 engine can be driven daily by my grandma it's so tractable.

[M-technik-3]

The US ones aren't even weaker/crippled versions, but a completely different motor. That statement could work for other motors which had slightly more power in Europe.
The US s50 should never even have been called an s50. It's an m50b30 or an m52b32.

Erik

On this note look at AC Schnitzer's sight, they copied the US design when making their E36 B6 made it a 3.0L with smg and they sold well. The difference in price vs the S50b30 and the stroked M50 was huge.

The newer the cars get there is almost no HP/TQ difference, it's the difference in the older cars between our fuel and we had cats vs non catted cars of the 70-80's.

Would I want an s50b30/32 sure but am I happy with a s50 and a s52 sure. Night and day power difference between the m20.

[M3 euro ltw]

Trivia for everyone....

The US ones aren't even weaker/crippled versions, but a completely different motor. That statement could work for other motors which had slightly more power in Europe.
The US s50 should never even have been called an s50. It's an m50b30 or an m52b32.

Erik

Very well put... spot on.

E24/E28 M6-M635csi/M5 owners did in fact have US versions crippled compared to ROW S38 motors. (headers, compression etc)

S14 in US never got the cool homogulation versions ROW got, but can't really say the S14 here was crippled vs ROW, most were the same.

The US e36 M3 engine pretty much first showed up as a beefed up 325 engine from the tuners in europe to fill a gap before the S50B30 came out...(Alpina, Schnitzer etc) March 2002 Total BMW details the Schnitzer S3 3.0, how they beat Alpina (and BMW) to the punch. Schnitzer had a custom crank made to stroke from 2.5 to 3 liters with an 86m stroke, and bored from 84 to 85.5mm, using custom forged pistons. Power output was (surprise) 240 HP. Think BMW wasn't watching? Numbers look familiar? These conversions were done as early as 92, well before the US spec M3 came out, or the euro M3....

Only canada saw about 50 S50B30 engined cars...NA never really got M motors in E36 M3 cars.

With the S54, we did get a slightly detuned vesion due to cats in the headers. But at least the guts of the engine were identical to ROW. We never got the CSL version of that engine.

Being Green has certainly cost the US market many of the hottest engines BMW has offered.

[erik325i]

too damn bad US versions are always the weaker, crippled verisons of the Euro's

The US ones aren't even weaker/crippled versions, but a completely different motor. That statement could work for other motors which had slightly more power in Europe.
The US s50 should never even have been called an s50. It's an m50b30 or an m52b32.

Erik

[Be30mer]

k thanks for the info, i think Ill just go with an s52 and do an OBD1 conversion. That should yield enough power for now. too damn bad US versions are always the weaker, crippled verisons of the Euro's