S50 euro vs S50 US

[triggrhaapi]

Thanks - so conceivably, one could make a NV motor into a Vanos motor by installing the unit, the cammes, the valve cover ... and the electronics/harness?

You'd have to run some custom tuning, but yes. You also lack knock sensors, so those would have to be added. Not quite sure how you would mount them since there are no bungs to drill and tap... The custom tuning would be required to run without knock sensors.

[nmlss2006]

Thanks - so conceivably, one could make a NV motor into a Vanos motor by installing the unit, the cammes, the valve cover ... and the electronics/harness?

[triggrhaapi]

Most lightly tuned S50s are around 220whp or so. More aggressive tuning like headers, hfm, injectors will get you 225-230whp.

I'm honestly expecting around 225 or 230 from my frankenstein engine and I have head work. Cams + head work will probably get closer to 245whp. 259whp is the MOST I have ever seen from an N/A S50US and that motor was WORKED.

[digger]

Do you live your life a quarter-mile at a time?

0.5secs over the 400m is not such a huge difference when the motors are so different (in price and spec). Of course, this brings up the topic of drag racing BMWs and using an axe as a hammer, etc, etc...

3L, 24V, intake vanos.........not what i would call huge, its just tuning (i dont mean the chip type eiither) i thought it was quite a large difference

[digger]

It not significant in my opinion in terms of difference is swap cost and performance.
It may be a nicer looking engine, slightly higher HP, but swap/labor of $6,000 vs $10,000 is distant. On an S50 for about $ 1,000 bucks, adding a 3.5" HFM ($100), intake ($150), upgraded exhaust ($500) and chip ($250), can bring you close to 300HP

On any given day, it can be a driver's race.

where are all the 250+whp S50's then? Any near that number (genuinely) have atleast schrick cams

[e30e]

It not significant in my opinion in terms of difference is swap cost and performance.
It may be a nicer looking engine, slightly higher HP, but swap/labor of $6,000 vs $10,000 is distant. On an S50 for about $ 1,000 bucks, adding a 3.5" HFM ($100), intake ($150), upgraded exhaust ($500) and chip ($250), can bring you close to 300HP

On any given day, it can be a driver's race.

I will give you a grand if you can write a chip that gives me 60 more crank horsepower with just a hfm and cone filter, I already have an $800 exhaust ....LOL

Cranking out to 300hp N/A out of s52/s50 requires at least cam work, its not that simple just to do bolt on's to get 60 more crank hp out a the s5x's. If it is provide me a dyno graph and mod's list and I will put your name on the side of the car.

[Iain]

How is 0.5s in the 1/4 pretty much the same? Considering a 100mph trap speed in 0.5s you move 25 yards or ~5 car length, Even 0.5s 0-60 is a 1-2 car lengths.

Do you live your life a quarter-mile at a time?

0.5secs over the 400m is not such a huge difference when the motors are so different (in price and spec). Of course, this brings up the topic of drag racing BMWs and using an axe as a hammer, etc, etc...

[browntown]

Alex is hands down THE authority on these engines in the US.

And a gynecologist too! I wish some of the docs I work with were hip to working on cars.

[BingM3]

How is 0.5s in the 1/4 pretty much the same? Considering a 100mph trap speed in 0.5s you move 25 yards or ~5 car length, Even 0.5s 0-60 is a 1-2 car lengths.

It not significant in my opinion in terms of difference is swap cost and performance.
It may be a nicer looking engine, slightly higher HP, but swap/labor of $6,000 vs $10,000 is distant. On an S50 for about $ 1,000 bucks, adding a 3.5" HFM ($100), intake ($150), upgraded exhaust ($500) and chip ($250), can bring you close to 300HP

On any given day, it can be a driver's race.

[digger]

Performance, pretty much the same 0-60 and 1/4 stock
US S50 vs Euro S50B30 (6.0 vs 5.6, 14.5 vs 14.0)

How is 0.5s in the 1/4 pretty much the same? Considering a 100mph trap speed in 0.5s you move 25 yards or ~5 car length, Even 0.5s 0-60 is a 1-2 car lengths.

[triggrhaapi]

Oh and obviously the cams are totally different.

[triggrhaapi]

If your head isn't machined to clear the VANOS unit, you have to have that done. Otherwise it's a direct bolt on.

[nmlss2006]

Wait wait wait: how did the VANOS bolt right up on a NV motor? Please tell me more, this has suddently become relevant upon purchase of a 525iX touring...

[triggrhaapi]

Actually, not revised. Andreas is just Swedish, which means he's crazy.

Also, I have NEVER had a problem figuring out which gear is where on a stock shifter. On a short shifter, it's rocket science.

As for what happens, It's actually got NOTHING to do with lifters, it has EVERYTHING to do with valvespring latency. Softer springs take longer to return the valve to closed. When a lifter collapses, the valve opens LESS, not more and there is no related latency from that effect. Also, the larger Non-Vanos lifters seem to hold pressure better, so they stay inflated even at extreme RPM. They also have to press on stiffer double valvesprings. The double valvesprings are a big part of why I went with an NV head instead of an S50 head.

[M3 euro ltw]

Whoops...

My bad... I saw the NV, and mis-read it as the newer N series stuff. I'm not hip to that abbreviation. I'm glad that they feel their revised engines can last at 8K..... sounds dangerous to me.

Let us be clear on this then.... (OK, this is my opinion, not necessarily FACT)

The money shift problem is really primarily not the engine itself, it usually has to do with the front subframe having been ripped apart, so that there is no longer any connection between the engine mount and the subframe.

This often goes unnoticed. Once this happens, the engine tilts the whole fricken drivetrain, and the slot you THOUGHT you were going to shift into has moved, and you miss it.

The consequences are what we call "money shift", but its an over-rev where the hydraulic lifters can not keep the valves out of the way quickly enough from the pistons.

I'd gamble that the vast majority of people going to the trouble of upgrading their valvetrain KNOW about the front subframe weakness, and THAT is why they don't have money-shift problems. ie not intrinsically more robust or resistent to the buzzing at high rpm.

I hate to burst bubbles, but no amount of work on the valve train of a hydraulic lifter engine like the M50 series is really going to make it anywhere nearly as resistent to buzzing the valves as the euro motors. It is one example where you can't make a silk purse out of...well you get it.

I've had the pleasure of owning many BMW's without the solid lifters, so I'm not trying to slam the M50/S50 US motors, they are incredible, and so, so affordable....They make sense to use in many applications. But, the hydraulic lifters do not offer an improvement in performance in any way, they offer less maintenance for customers and factory's that don't want to be burdened with needing to adjust valves.

I don't want to start an internet war, so I'm not going to post on this portion of the subject again.