S50 euro vs S50 US

[M3 euro ltw]

RE: power difference

we did get the crappy headers, and the compression is a little lower (9.8:1 vs 10.5:1) but the power difference (30 hp or so) can largely be made up just by getting rid of the cat since it is so restrictive on the US cars. we did get the duplex timing chain, which is nice.

Now I remember this..... The euro version of the engine was 286, the same number they picked for the S50B30 engine, sort of in tribute I'm sure, as they can fudge either way quite a bit....

The US versions were 256, as you say. Dyno shows close to 30 HP difference taking the cats off?

Peace... not trying to start a war about S38/M88 in a M50 vs S50 thread.

I used to be a Nut about the S38 trivia when I had one. Wait, I still do, just haven't driven it in 2.5 years, the E34 M5 that is partially sold!

Sorry for WOB

[FredK]

Ha! This is r3vlimited. Topics are rarely topical!

To the original poster, there are plenty of other modifications that can be done to an S50US to increase its power by a LOT. But, as with many engines, when you're chasing power, you better have an open wallet.

[Charlie]

The US ones aren't even weaker/crippled versions, but a completely different motor. That statement could work for other motors which had slightly more power in Europe.
The US s50 should never even have been called an s50. It's an m50b30 or an m52b32.

Erik

So a standard BMW sedan with a high-end model that won't pass US standards and costs a bunch, replaced in the USDM with a stroked version of the standard motor, and sells a ton.

Worked for the 2002, worked for the E36 M3.

-Charlie

[Eric]

Sorry for WOB

Hi Alex, welcome to the site!

I need to delete my EWS on my S50B30 that's going into my E30, how do you suggest i do this? My ECU is a silver label 075.

thanks

Eric

[M3 euro ltw]

WOB redux

Hi Alex, welcome to the site!

I need to delete my EWS on my S50B30 that's going into my E30, how do you suggest i do this? My ECU is a silver label 075.

thanks

Eric

I'm a relative newb to the forum...he's baiting me, right guys?

[Ray Smoodiver]

No, of the people on the forum to bait, Eric ain't one of them, and certainly not to as respected member of the BMW community as you are, Alex.

Though to be fair, the S50B30 doesn't have EWS, does it?

[Be30mer]

Very well put... spot on.

E24/E28 M6-M635csi/M5 owners did in fact have US versions crippled compared to ROW S38 motors. (headers, compression etc)

S14 in US never got the cool homogulation versions ROW got, but can't really say the S14 here was crippled vs ROW, most were the same.

The US e36 M3 engine pretty much first showed up as a beefed up 325 engine from the tuners in europe to fill a gap before the S50B30 came out...(Alpina, Schnitzer etc) March 2002 Total BMW details the Schnitzer S3 3.0, how they beat Alpina (and BMW) to the punch. Schnitzer had a custom crank made to stroke from 2.5 to 3 liters with an 86m stroke, and bored from 84 to 85.5mm, using custom forged pistons. Power output was (surprise) 240 HP. Think BMW wasn't watching? Numbers look familiar? These conversions were done as early as 92, well before the US spec M3 came out, or the euro M3....

Only canada saw about 50 S50B30 engined cars...NA never really got M motors in E36 M3 cars.

With the S54, we did get a slightly detuned vesion due to cats in the headers. But at least the guts of the engine were identical to ROW. We never got the CSL version of that engine.

Being Green has certainly cost the US market many of the hottest engines BMW has offered.

shit. you rlly know your stuff

[Eric]

I'm a relative newb to the forum...he's baiting me, right guys?

No not at all! all i need is the EWS removed, and a brake booster/clearence solution and i'm ready to start my swap!

No, of the people on the forum to bait, Eric ain't one of them, and certainly not to as respected member of the BMW community as you are, Alex.

Though to be fair, the S50B30 doesn't have EWS, does it?

I didn't think so either until i picked up my motor and in the box of random parts was the key and key cylinder. apparently late 95 motors had EWS???

[ColdAccord]

Hmmmm.... there are thousands of S50B30 and S50B32 daily drivers across the rest of the world, and other than the SMG I versions, no one has been complaining about using them as grocery getters too.....

S14 now...that is a buzzy little beast...I could see someone saying that they prefer an M50 for daily driving compared to that particular M-motor.......

Maybe you have more time driving euro motors than I do....

(that is not meant as obnoxiously as it came out.... I didn't have my 3.2 in a streetable car for THAT long, but it was a blast and fine while I could drive it on the street)

my euro s50b30 car has been my daily driver since about october. I moved south and could only do so with one car, so my e36 had to go.



euro s50 has solid lifters. that motor is loud as hell. I can't talk on my cellphone in my car. Not on speaker, not on regular. And that's with a stock e36m3 exhaust.

clutch pedal is very stiff, same with the gas. Way more-so than my m20 car, m20 2.7 car, my m30 car, or any of my m50 cars. I got stuck in 2 hours of stop and go on my way home from hockey in Yorktown one day. My legs were more sore from working the clutch than from playing hockey.

not to mention I get awful gas mileage. average 17 mpg.

[M3 euro ltw]

EWS.... OT again..here we go...

I didn't think so either until i picked up my motor and in the box of random parts was the key and key cylinder. apparently late 95 motors had EWS???

I have not had one of the EWS version harnesses/dme in my hands to date.

The very last run of S50B30 did indeed have EWS II equiped DME/harness/car.

I would suggest you try something simple first. Rumour is that these later DME had 4 extra pins, 2 per side, and that if you use the older chip, ie the shorter one, it works just fine, and in effect, bypasses the EWS. I'm pretty sure the chip swap is safe from a "running the engine" standpoint, but I'm not sure it will delete the EWS.

I CAN NOT INDEPENDENTLY CONFIRM THIS......

There is a start of a thread on this in BFC in the euro section, and a couple guy from AU seem to have a bit more first hand experience on this subject.

I believe I could put you in touch with someone to sell you a clone of a stock shorter chip very cheaply. I have the tools to copy the chips, and some time ago, bought some blank chips, but never installed the software/hardware to do so, and (shrug) can't find the chips now anyway.

The guys in AU know of an upgrade chip that does delete the EWS, and it is shorter.... might be the opportunity to do two things at once.

PM me if you can't get the help you need on this...

Alex.

[M3 euro ltw]

euro s50 has solid lifters. that motor is loud as hell. I can't talk on my cellphone in my car. Not on speaker, not on regular. And that's with a stock e36m3 exhaust.

clutch pedal is very stiff, same with the gas. Way more-so than my m20 car, m20 2.7 car, my m30 car, or any of my m50 cars. I got stuck in 2 hours of stop and go on my way home from hockey in Yorktown one day. My legs were more sore from working the clutch than from playing hockey.

not to mention I get awful gas mileage. average 17 mpg.

1) You may need the shims adjusted. Some people do this every 15 to 20K. They are not hydraulic as you know, so they need attention.

1.5) Educamacate me about how stock E36 exhausts mate up on an E30... with S50BX headers.... not joking, don't know much about this aspect. Thought custom work was needed.

2) Clutch pedal has nothing to do with the engine obviously

3) Consider a serious lubrication and cleaning of the TB assembly and the linkages related to the cable section. While it is tightly sprung, this is not a common complaint. Could the throttle cable be kinked or worn?

3.5) Mileage in the same sentence as a euro transplant? 17? GOOD, that means you're enjoying it the way it was intended! (or, you need a tune up I guess????)

[DaveSmed]

For whatever it is worth, my S50B32 E30 was perfectly streetable, even with an 8.5lb flywheel. I'd readily say it was much more pleasant to DD than the M20. Lots more torque around town.

The thing that did suck is my car was obnoxiously loud. Never did get the exhaust sorted, had a temporary setup of two 2.5" glasspacks side by side off of the headers, and that was it. With a proper exhaust, it would make a better DD than a stock E30 IMO.

shit. you rlly know your stuff

Alex is hands down THE authority on these engines in the US.


I really have to reassemble that car... I miss driving it! I was even down on power!

[triggrhaapi]

What's the difference between these two engines other than displacement and ITB's? If I wanted to build a euro s50 from a US s50, what would I need and would it be worth it?

Can't be done. Deck height is different, which means that even though the cylinder spacing will match up, and theoretically you can mount the head, the block is too short for the bottom end from an S50 euro and you're screwed.

EDIT: I also believe the euro crank has wider bearings, but nobody has ever posted measurements and I don't have one to measure.

[BingM3]

Performance, pretty much the same 0-60 and 1/4 stock
US S50 vs Euro S50B30 (6.0 vs 5.6, 14.5 vs 14.0)

Engine Weight, US S50 299 lbs, Euro S50B30 333 lbs

Maintenance, ease of parts, upgrades, US S50

US S50 240 HP and Euro S50B30 286HP

Cool Looking Engine = Euro S50B30

Cost to buy used US S50 about $2,500 + gearbox $ 500 and Euro S50B30, about $5,000-6,000 + gearbox $1500

Engine Swap with parts needed + labor cost US S50 about $ 6,000 and Euro about $10,000
Go faster parts, add $1,000 to both Lightened Flywheel and upgraded clutch

[M3 euro ltw]

tough comparison

You're really not comparing apples to apples.

Jeeze, the con rods on the S50B30 are 50mm, the biggest ever used on a BMW engine that I'm aware of.(*)

Seriously, also the way the engine handles track duty is very, very different. I'm not suggesting you DO this, but you can buzz a solid lifter engine a bit over redline with a "money shift" and get away with it... no way on the hydraulic M50 versions.... everyone and their grandmother knows that term. I know someone that saw 9K on his 3.2 with valves still in good shape.

(word to the wise, don't go too short on SS kits for the 6 speed...not that I'd know anything about THAT particular bug-aboo)

(*) (ok, short of whatever the BMW IIIa in the Fokker that Richthofen, the Red Baron flew, let us be reasonable here)

peace...