Header swap

[Beej '86 325es]

I'm unhappy with my exhaust setup and I'm looking at swapping out the S52 headers for something that flows better on my modified motor.

Am I looking at a big headache changing headers without removing the engine?

Also, I'm open to suggestions on headers...lots of people use the typical eBay pieces, but I think the design looks awful similar to the S52 manifolds and I'm not sure if there's much gain from that...

Thanks!

[F34R]

I'm unhappy with my exhaust setup and I'm looking at swapping out the S52 headers for something that flows better on my modified motor.

Am I looking at a big headache changing headers without removing the engine?

Also, I'm open to suggestions on headers...lots of people use the typical eBay pieces, but I think the design looks awful similar to the S52 manifolds and I'm not sure if there's much gain from that...

Thanks!

There is gain moving over to headers. Just make sure the SS is a good grade and you are set. I love the ones that have a full plate with the holes drilled for the studs. The free moving ones seem to never fit right. With the plate they align well and if not round it out and you are good to go.

1+ on moving to headers.

[FredK]

Longer tube headers aren't impossible to install with the engine in place. It makes things difficult, especially on some designs where you only have like 30 degrees of swing to fit a ratchet for certain lower locknuts.

I believe people have fitted the Raceland headers and seen tangible gains, especially in the upper rpm range. You will probably see a gain in flow especially at upper rpms with any long(er) tube headers -- be it Raceland or Supersprint ebay knockoffs, or real Supersprint headers (which I believe have "real" collectors that serve to increase exhaust scavenging, whereas who knows if the knockoff headers do).

[matt]

We tuned an M50 with S50 cams and ebay headers last week. Made 205whp on a dynojet. Solid.

[Adrian_Visser]

I really like the sound of my Racelands.
Even with a 3" exhaust they sound fucking awesome.

It is loud with the 3" but damn it sounds fucking mean with the resonator and muffler setup I have.

Anybody else ever heard of Redline mufflers? Canadian made stuff, new to me but I am pleasantly surprised. Considering the exhaust shop totally ignored what I told them I wanted... which was Borla and Vibrant stuff. I thought the customer was always right?

[Beej '86 325es]

We tuned an M50 with S50 cams and ebay headers last week. Made 205whp on a dynojet. Solid.

Good to know, since you guys did cut the chip for me! I've yet to make it to the dyno...I'm finally getting this project back on track now that I've moved. I'll probably need an updated chip with headers though, correct?

Are these the Racelands people run here? Do any of you think I'll need to pull the engine to get them installed?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Raceland-Exhaust-Header-BMW-E36-M3-Z3-3-0L-3-2L-/140418012103?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20b190d3c7

Thanks!

[matt]

No, you don't need an updated chip for the headers.

If you want, you can go dyno after you put them on and send us the data and we'll see if we can make some tweaks, but the tune will accommodate them just fine.

[g22]

Here's the dyno for the car Matt is talking about...

[JGood]

Here's the dyno for the car Matt is talking about...

What are the differences in those two runs? There is a ton of area under the curve gained, even though peak didn't change much.

My m50 w/ s50 cams feels like the red graph looks, hits a dead spot around 5500 then pulls like a beast after that to 7k. The blue graph gets rip of that dip and give what looks like a 20whp gain at ~5600.



Here's a rebuilt m50 with s50 cams and a tune, still has the dip at 5500:

[Beej '86 325es]

Headers ordered! Hopefully I can squeeze 'em in there!

[matt]

What are the differences in those two runs? There is a ton of area under the curve gained, even though peak didn't change much.

My m50 w/ s50 cams feels like the red graph looks, hits a dead spot around 5500 then pulls like a beast after that to 7k. The blue graph gets rip of that dip and give what looks like a 20whp gain at ~5600.



Here's a rebuilt m50 with s50 cams and a tune, still has the dip at 5500:

Base tune vs final.

Who did the tune on that motor?

[JGood]

Base tune vs final.

Who did the tune on that motor?

By base tune, do you mean stock chip? Or an off the shelf "s50 cams in an m50" tune, like what you sell? Or just a custom tune starting from scratch?

Is it possible to get rid of the dip at 5600 with a custom tune? I figured that was just the nature of the cams and there was no way around it.


I stole that graph from this thread:

http://r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=150491

[matt]

Base tunes are based on stock files, with flattened timing and fuel tables so that we can see the natural performance of the motor without worrying that some peak or valley in the software is going to cause strange performance on the dyno. Then we collect a lot of data, make some revisions, and see where we end up.

Is is sometimes possible to get rid of the dip by mechanical or software means. It depends on the particulars of the situation.

[5KWattson]

Long tube headers with fit in with a lil bit of persuasion, I have to unbolt my mounts due to solid ones, an slightly lift the motor but it was no biggy, I'm running the SS ebay copies an they sounds amazing through the SS cat back (ebay) but I'm not running a resonator so its rapsy from 2k-4k than she screams like a banshee. But a res, s50 cams, an the TRM chip are my soon to be plans

[rneedham1979]

I just swapped out my ebay SS reps for the HUGE RMS headers. I had the SS's welded to a Y pipe so dropped the subframe a few inchs to remove the old headers. The RMS headers cleared everything and fit fine. I am running 2 aluminum shims on the motor mounts but doubt it makes much difference.

FYI- I will be selling the RMS headers sometime in August-September.