non-vanos m50 with m3 cam...

[JGood]

If I were to pick up a 92 non-vanos m50 and do the m3 cam, and switch the intake cam or whatever, and do the software, what kind of power am I looking at? I am trying so hard to find a cheap s50 and they just don't happen for under 3k. I figure I can get an 92 m50 for under 1k and have it partailly rebuilt with cams and software and everything for around 2k. Would that be noticeably better then a chipped vanos m50?

I bought a 93 325is wrecked, found out it had 178k miles, stripped the engine down then found out it has a rebuilt head with less then 10k miles. Si I'm stuck between selling the engine and keeping it, but I don't want a plain m50.

I don't want to do this swap and be dissapointed. I want to be able to run 14's at the least. I heard with the stock m50 you guys are only doing low 15's, and I can almost pull that in my current chipped eta with my 3.25 LSD, and I bet it's even more fun to drive with the low end torque.

Anyway, any advice before I spend all sorts of money woudl be appreciated. Just looking for good power without spending an arm and a leg.

Justin

[Brew]

I think with M3-spec cams, and the some bolt-ons you could be in the 190whp range, maybe even slightly over 200whp.

The non-vanos M50 still has good low-end torque compared to the m20 motors, both b25 and b27, and the top-end is much, much better. My n/v m50 pulls all the way to 7k rpm, and feels like it could keep going, whereas m20b25's take a dump after 6200 or so.

An e30 with a chipped M50, vanos or non-vanos should be capable of 14s. I'll let you know in a few months when I take mine to the track.

[JGood]

Also, would it be possible to put s50 internals into the non-vanos m50 and run the m50 head, or even put an s50 head on there and have an s50 motor (obviously change injectors/ecu)? Because I think I could scrounge up pistons, rods, and a crank from an s50 for cheaper then the cost of an s50. Then strap on the stock m50 head and drive that until I find a deal on an s50 head, or would the m50 head with the m3 cam be good enough?

Justin

[Teaguer]

Remember to budget for machine work to get those parts to fit.
Also I seem to remember hearing that the M50 blocks cannot be bored to the size of the S50 or S52 pistons , I'n not certain of this and can't see why not but I'm sure I have heard this.

The M50 head is the same though , all the M50-S50-S52 heads are the same with the exception of the cams and their holders.
The early non-vanos heads do have a slightly smaller valve stem size but they flow the same .

That being said I think you would better served to find at least a S50 short block and just build that up.

[JGood]

So I could get an s50 that was over revved with bent valves, throw my rebuilt 93 m50 head on, and call it a day? Or put m3 cams in it and have an m3 engine? O just sell the rebuilt head and buy a used m3 head...hmmm....

The reason I ask is I found 2 s50's that were over revved.

Justin

[Teaguer]

Yeah the best thing to do would be to just drop M3 cams into your head and use it on a S50 bottom end.


** When I say the heads are all the same that is true if you are going to running OBDI , the OBDII heads have a few more provisions that must be retained when running OBDII .
Valve wise , flow wise and combustion chamber wise they are all the same .

[JGood]

Any idea of who to go to or how to replace cams on a vanos motor?


Thanks!

Justin

[Jason89i]

Re: non-vanos m50 with m3 cam...

If I were to pick up a 92 non-vanos m50 and do the m3 cam,
Justin

the m3 cams will work with the non-vanos. HOWEVER, you can switch the intake cam to the exhaust side (or is it the other way around?) and buy only one schrick cam. ultimately you will get higher hp than an m50 with m3 cams.

also if you have the wiring / ecu from a vanos motor, you will need a different ecu for the non-vanos motor.

i just got the m3 cams in my m50 and.....well......its worth it. i dont know what the 1/4mile times are but it really pulls hard.

cheers, jason

EDITED FOR CLEARIFICATION ON CAMS

if you go VANOS (93-95) you will need the 413 ecu. if you choose to upgrade the cams, you can use the s50-s52 cams for a good high end boost in hp. quoted by a respected bmw performance shop "the m50 2.5l vanos cams are 228-degree duration, while the s52 3.2l m3 cams are 252intake and 240 exhaust.....you can use the s52 cams with the m50 lifters and springs. the s52 uses smaller lifters (33mm vs 35mm diam) and conical valve springs with teeny retainer washers. net saving with this stuff is 20 grams per valve. get the s52 cam trays, lifters and springs if you can but the swap is ok with cams only as mentioned earlier." custom software recommended.

if you go NON-VANOS (92) you will need the 402 or 403 ecu. if you choose to upgrade the cams, you switch the intake came to the exhaust side. timing is 240 on both, but the intake has a 9.7 lift vs 9.0 onthe exhaust. buy a schrick 252intake cam and you have the same cams as the m3. custom software recommended.

i have the m50 with m3 cams and custom software. i am not sure of rwhp though.

cheers, jason

[Jason89i]

So I could get an s50 that was over revved with bent valves, throw my rebuilt 93 m50 head on, and call it a day? Justin

i just tore apart an overreved s50 and the valve head was imbedded in the piston head. (it will make a great desk paperweight!) yes, the s50 and m50 head castings are the same. if you can get the s50 cam towers with the cams, thats the way to go. the s50 cam towers are superior to the m50's.

as far as installing the cams, i just did it a couple of nights ago. you will need the cam alignment tool. the bentley gives a good idea of whats involved, but is defragmented over 4 chapters and is not complete. they do not address secondary cam timing chain advancing or sprocket arrow location. just a heads up. cheers, jason

[JGood]

I'm goign with a 92 m50, found one with low miles. So I can do the cam swap myself without tools? Since it doesn't have vanos I don't see it bein any mroe difficult then an m20. Does anyone have a write-up as I've never done that. What ecu do I want to use? A 92 with a aftermarket chip, or stock m3 ecu with stock chip, or stock m3 ecu with aftermarket m3 chip? What kind of hp can I expect with this setup at the wheels?

What all do I need to convert collant system from an 83 325e to later style? I know I need rad, resvoir, all hoses, rad mount, what else?

Justin

[Skafrog]

just convert it over to vanos. This way, you will have the dual valve springs, and vanos.
Yes, it can be done.

[aaron_silva]

just convert it over to vanos. This way, you will have the dual valve springs, and vanos.
Yes, it can be done.

You have to get the wiring harness from a vanos car and a slew of other parts. Wonder if it is even worth the money.

Aaron

[Brew]

just convert it over to vanos. This way, you will have the dual valve springs, and vanos.
Yes, it can be done.

I was under the impression that the non-vanos motor had the better valve train w/ dual valve springs.

Here are a couple very informative threads on bimmerforums: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ight=non-vanos

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186308&highlight=non-vanoshttp://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186308&highlight=non-vanos

[aaron_silva]

I think he meant to convert the NonV head to Vanos (cams, vanos and other associated parts).

Aaron

[JGood]

I have a 10k mile vanos head right now, actually the whole engine. THe point is, I can't afford an m3 engine but woudl like similar performance, or at least close. I thought If I'd go with a non-vanos, get a m3 cam (can't be that expensive), and a chip, I coudl get 200hp and call it a day. And I could sell my current engine / fresh head to cover the cost. I don't want the rebuilt head because you can't easily put cams in it I heard. I found a 80k mile 92 m50 for cheap, so I figured for about the same price, get more power, at the cost of higher mileage. I'm not sure exactly what all my questions are, I'm just tossing around ideas.

My current plan is the 92 m50, non-vanos, m3 cam, aftermarket 92 325i chip, and that's it. Is that a good reliable setup that can get me some decent power, more then a stock vanos m50? And is it fairly easy to do the cams?

Justin