Anybody miss their M20?

[CoClimber]

I respect the learning curve thing but I have an S50 swap in the works and I'm really looking forward to not having the M3s walk away from me in the straights. I do have a little experience and I justify the swap by saying that the fun factor should go up. My biggest complaint is that I won't be legal for STX in autocross.

[gearheadE30]

Eh, IMO the power of a swapped car dulls the learning curve as well. If you blow a corner, you can just motor on through without fear of getting rear ended by a WRX, if you were in an eta.

So true. Can't really say much about the M20 debate, but I think if I had started HPDEs and autocross with the turbo rather than with a measly 134 horses, i would me a much, much worse driver. Not having power really teaches you how to drive smoothly, make the most of the track, plan ahead, and really just about everything else. If I didn't know what it felt like to do to it right, then I probably wouldn't be able to feel it now when I turn in a little early or if my line is off, because power and torque can really cover those traits up.

[BimmerTim]

miss my m20? bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

no

[e30polak]

The instant response of Vanos is a wonderful thing; rolling into "on-cam" not so much.... :p

[FredK]

Eh, IMO the power of a swapped car dulls the learning curve as well. If you blow a corner, you can just motor on through without fear of getting rear ended by a WRX, if you were in an eta.

[markseven]

We are? All I'm saying is, the weight of a 24v motor doesn't mean shit, on the street or track.

I have a 24V car. I do not miss the M20 at all. I was trying to shed some light on when one might miss the M20... ;)

Anything NASA.. Especially Thunder, where "our" BMW's and Porsches are often referred to as "little cars" by CMC guys and most other domestic racers. Oh wait, I'm in NASCAR country.. Maybe that's why. Or maybe not.

On the west coast the BMW CCA and PCA drivers display a high level of sportsmanship, but the competition is fierce. At Buttonwillow a few years ago the CCA sprint went four across into turn one, and I distinctly remember the announcer saying "four across into turn one! Only the BMW guys will try that!"

you can buy a used worn out 90 SM for $8k and run at the back of the pack or you can build a brand new 99 with a Drago or a Rossini motor with all new shocks and Aim dash and....... the newer the parts the less rolling resistance, I hear of people swapping shocks out after 3-4 races and continually having them rebuilt. I also hear a lot about cheater gas that is $50 per gallon and not detectable by SCCA tech

Wow. Damn.

Cheater gas? I have to google that.

[briansjacobs]

How the heck does the car price range from $8-$40K? I thought Spec classes were supposed level the playing field... crazy.

you can buy a used worn out 90 SM for $8k and run at the back of the pack or you can build a brand new 99 with a Drago or a Rossini motor with all new shocks and Aim dash and....... the newer the parts the less rolling resistance, I hear of people swapping shocks out after 3-4 races and continually having them rebuilt. I also hear a lot about cheater gas that is $50 per gallon and not detectable by SCCA tech

[rThor432]

I've heard Spec Miata is thee worst. Real cutthroat action, I hear.

Anything NASA.. Especially Thunder, where "our" BMW's and Porsches are often referred to as "little cars" by CMC guys and most other domestic racers. Oh wait, I'm in NASCAR country.. Maybe that's why. Or maybe not.

[ChaseN]

Apparently we are talking about two different things.

We are? All I'm saying is, the weight of a 24v motor doesn't mean shit, on the street or track.

All things being equal, the race is won by the better driver. :pimp:

But that's the point, nothing ever IS equal Steelers are on, BRB...

[markseven]

Sure, using "balance" as a reason not to swap for a marginally heavier, superior engine? Take 2 cars, one with "perfect" weight distribution, and a built M20. The second, with maybe, 54% forward bias, and a built M/S5X. Take reasonably experienced, equali-sh ability drivers familiar with their cars, and you know which car rapes which. Not to mention, I'd venture to say most people swapping their e30 don't give a f*ck about the track. Sure they might "say" they want to DE, or track it or whatever, but we both know that most eventually won't.

The M20 is a fine engine. It sounds just right for an e30 at idle, is easy to work on and maintain, and can make decent power for what it is. That doesn't change the fact there are technologically superior engines out there.



LOL, I didn't realize races were won doing things the "right" (morally? ethically? legally?) way. Races are won by the faster car - and sometimes the fastest car that day has a F/R balance for shit.

Air-cooled is a totally different story - it is quantitatively "wrong". Given two 3.6l flat-sixes, one air cooled, one water cooled, and an equal amount of development, the water cooled motor will make more power, reliably, every single time. I still like them better though :D - just like someone can prefer an M20 over a 24v. Just don't waste your time trying to come up with justifications for why its "better".

Apparently we are talking about two different things.

All things being equal, the race is won by the better driver. :pimp:

[ChaseN]

Balance is a "snob" thing? Surely you jest :D

Sure, using "balance" as a reason not to swap for a marginally heavier, superior engine? Take 2 cars, one with "perfect" weight distribution, and a built M20. The second, with maybe, 54% forward bias, and a built M/S5X. Take reasonably experienced, equali-sh ability drivers familiar with their cars, and you know which car rapes which. Not to mention, I'd venture to say most people swapping their e30 don't give a f*ck about the track. Sure they might "say" they want to DE, or track it or whatever, but we both know that most eventually won't.

(^^^I hate this paragraph, because I feel like I'm bench racing. That doesn't change the fact that its true.)

The M20 is a fine engine. It sounds just right for an e30 at idle, is easy to work on and maintain, and can make decent power for what it is. That doesn't change the fact there are technologically superior engines out there.

As for the 911 thing, you know that a front or rear bias isn't the right way to do it. Just like air-cooled isn't the right way either.

LOL, I didn't realize races were won doing things the "right" (morally? ethically? legally?) way. Races are won by the faster car - and sometimes the fastest car that day has a F/R balance for shit.

Air-cooled is a totally different story - it is quantitatively "wrong". Given two 3.6l flat-sixes, one air cooled, one water cooled, and an equal amount of development, the water cooled motor will make more power, reliably, every single time. I still like them better though :D - just like someone can prefer an M20 over a 24v. Just don't waste your time trying to come up with justifications for why its "better".

[markseven]

if you are a good driver SM is generally not that bad, the problem is that the fields are usually at least 40 cars all within 5-10 hp of each other and cars ranging from $8k to $40k in price and drivers from some of the best in the country to people that got a license yesterday. The guys that are really good may rub a fender here and there but those are really cheap. It really is the best racing around.

With that said, if you race in SM long enough eventually you are going to total a car.

How the heck does the car price range from $8-$40K? I thought Spec classes were supposed level the playing field... crazy.

[briansjacobs]

I've heard Spec Miata is thee worst. Real cutthroat action, I hear.

if you are a good driver SM is generally not that bad, the problem is that the fields are usually at least 40 cars all within 5-10 hp of each other and cars ranging from $8k to $40k in price and drivers from some of the best in the country to people that got a license yesterday. The guys that are really good may rub a fender here and there but those are really cheap. It really is the best racing around.

With that said, if you race in SM long enough eventually you are going to total a car.

[markseven]

if you think that is bad, go club racing. People will damn near kill you and everyone on the track for a $5 trophy

I've heard Spec Miata is thee worst. Real cutthroat action, I hear.

[briansjacobs]

if you think that is bad, go club racing. People will damn near kill you and everyone on the track for a $5 trophy