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OBD1 M52 Running RICH, BITCH!

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    OBD1 M52 Running RICH, BITCH!

    Short time lurker, but I figured I'd make my first post asking for help. I've searched high and low seeking ideas on the all knowing internet, and have come up lacking. So I turn to the R3V to ask for help. Here is everything I know about this car.

    M52B28 converted to obd1 using m50 harness, throttle body, temp sensors, etc. One thing that has changed since buying the car, I have changed the plastic valve cover over for an aluminum one from the m50, the engine was originally lacking the cyclonic oil separator that m52s come with, and so there was no pcv control at all, that has changed with the installation of the m50 valve cover. I also have coil packs, and all of the other trimmings from the m50, including the correct fuel rail. (the injectors are the 19.5 lb pink tops from the m52) And the air temperature sensor is installed in the intake manifold (m50 intake manifold) And the O2 sensor is before the cat.

    The car also has the "fan delete mod" (80 degree thermostat, 80 degree fan switch, clutch fan removed, etc.)
    Another item of note Instead of using a harness from turner motorsports, the dual purpose temp sensor was removed, and an e30 temperature sending unit was installed in it's place, then the coolant port further back (that runs coolant to the throttle body) was pulled, and the m50 temperature sending unit (for the ecu) was installed there. Now I know those two are swapped (the ecu should be in the front, and the temperature gauge, I would assume can go in the rear port on the head) however, would there be that drastic of a temperature difference to affect the way the car runs?

    Mods: The car has a shorty stainless ebay header, into smaller exhaust piping (probably 2.25") that then in turn is welded into a 2 in 2 out catalytic converter (2.5" piping) then the exhaust piping upon exiting the cat goes back to 2.25" where it is flanged and runs into a 2.5" ireland engineering cat-back.

    The car also had a "hot air intake" where the filter was literally laying against the radiator, that has since been moved further away from the radiator.

    There is also a mystery TRM chip in the 413 red label dme. I know it cost the owner 250 bones, so I assume it wasn't new, and probably wasn't necessarily made for this car specifically.

    The car has been running rich since I got it, I know, because I changed the plugs, and the old ones were BLACK. And I also got my ass beat the other day by a stock e36 328is, with 600lbs of dude in it. (and as they rolled past, they let me know my car was smoking, FUCKKKKK!!!)

    So guys, sorry for the rambling, but can any of you help me consider my next route of action? I've cleaned the maf, moved the air filter, finished the m50 conversion, installed what were supposedly s50 cams, lifters, and trays (6 or 7 of the old m50 lifters were dead), rebuilt the vanos unit (beisan systems), have not found any vacuum leaks (there are only like two vacuum lines), got my ass kicked by a stock 328is, and the car seems to idle fine (I think around 8-900 rpm) no searching idle. And it seems to accelerate okay, but what the FUCK is going on with the super richness? Could it be the tune? Could it be the improperly placed temperature sending units? I don't know what to check next.

    Thanks in advance, whether you guys fuck with me or not. I'm just at a crossroads for my next action. And the guy that did the motor swap and all did a good job on almost everything, most of the parts were new, just some things are kind of wonky. But I think I've corrected most of them.

    Thad.
    Need BMW parts?
    http://www.blunttech.com
    or face ultimate peril.

    #2
    The first thing to do is get a proper chip tuned for your mods. The TRM chip, if it is in fact a real TRM chip and not a copy should have a TRM sticker on it that states the mods it is tuned for, if not it should at least have a serial number on it. You can e-mail matt at the racers market dot net the serial number and he should be able to tell you what the chip is tuned for.

    Off the bat if it isn't tuned for the s50 cams you are going to have issues.

    As for the temp sensor placement there can't be much of a difference between the two places, does the instrument cluster coolant temp gauge work properly though?

    What FPR is on the M50 fuel rail?

    '89 Alpine S52 with goodies

    Comment


      #3
      If your car is running ridiculously rich, it might be the chip not being appropriate for the injectors. I agree with what Adrian says. Contact TRM and find out what the chip is for.

      Pink tops are 21.5 lb/hr.

      I doubt the placement of the sensors does much of anything.

      600 lb of dude? Is that 3 burly dudes or 2 orca-men?

      Originally posted by whysimon
      WTF is hello Kitty (I'm 28 with no kids and I don't have cable)

      Comment


        #4
        3 burly men, fo sho. I will shoot Matt an e-mail on that. I was having the rich issues well before the cams. But I didn't realize how big of an issue it was until the 328is whooping. My mistake, they're pink tops, I forgot the flow rate. I assume it is a trm chip, I cracked the dme case when I pulled it to install the proper ecu mounting brackets (m42 brackets) I will pull it again and contact matt about it. I haven't taken any further steps towards the tuning end of things because I have a supercharger that I am preparing to install, and I figure I might as well wait on the tune. And I'm not 100 percent sure the cams I got were s50 cams, I didn't actually get them checked, I just got ballsy one night, and decided to install them. (I know, fucking ridiculous) Thanks for the assist so far, gents. I'll post up more after I talk to matt.

        Thad.
        Need BMW parts?
        http://www.blunttech.com
        or face ultimate peril.

        Comment


          #5
          Oh, and the fpr is the stock m50 that comes on the fuel rail. The car actually started off with some kind of obd2 fuel rail that had a regulator on it as well.

          Thad.
          Need BMW parts?
          http://www.blunttech.com
          or face ultimate peril.

          Comment


            #6
            Okay, I see why you guys support matt at trm so much, I sent him an email last night, he responded first thing this morning, and gave me some advice, let me know the tune was correct, and gave me a few ideas on what to look at. Excellent response times, great dude, genuinely helpful. So I'm going to check a few more things on the car, and see what I can figure out.

            Thad.
            Need BMW parts?
            http://www.blunttech.com
            or face ultimate peril.

            Comment


              #7
              Where is the o2 sensor located? If too close to the head then the computer might be sensing a lean condition and making it run more rich. At least that is how it worked on other obd1 cars we used to mess with and run on the track. Not for sure if this is how BMW dme's work or not. I'm sure someone will know the answer however.

              Originally posted by Roysneon
              $5 shipped?
              Originally posted by MarkD
              You are a strange dude, I'n not answering any more posts from you.

              Comment


                #8
                Did you use the cam locking tools to install the cams? It is easy to be off a degree or two when installing and you will lose a noticeable amount of power or so I am told I have never timed cams on a 24v TBH.

                '89 Alpine S52 with goodies

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Adrian_Visser View Post
                  Did you use the cam locking tools to install the cams? It is easy to be off a degree or two when installing and you will lose a noticeable amount of power or so I am told I have never timed cams on a 24v TBH.
                  Yeah, I used the locking tools, the only bad part, is I couldn't use the flywheel locking pin, due to the fact that the car is equipped with the g260. However, the running rich is a preexisting issue. I just swapped the cams on a whim one night. And I made sure the vanos was installed properly. The car runs the same as a stock e36 328is as it is right now. Which I think the richness is the cause of the issue. It has been present long before I got the vehicle. It just really became noticeable when I ran with that 328.


                  As far as the 02 sensor is concerned, It is installed a little downstream from the header, maybe 12". I'm going to see it's condition when I pull it this weekend. I think it's trashed.

                  Thad.
                  Need BMW parts?
                  http://www.blunttech.com
                  or face ultimate peril.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by samiam3356 View Post
                    Where is the o2 sensor located? If too close to the head then the computer might be sensing a lean condition and making it run more rich. At least that is how it worked on other obd1 cars we used to mess with and run on the track. Not for sure if this is how BMW dme's work or not. I'm sure someone will know the answer however.
                    This might be my problem.. My engine is obd1 s50 and my headers are from a s52, so I plugged in my o2 sensor to the OBD2 port on a header and the car is running rich.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by pancakechef View Post
                      This might be my problem.. My engine is obd1 s50 and my headers are from a s52, so I plugged in my o2 sensor to the OBD2 port on a header and the car is running rich.
                      What chip are you running? Give more specs please: engine, injectors, HFM and chip.

                      My car o2 sensor use the obdII port on the manifolds with no problem.
                      Fast lookin' Slow movin'

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Its a 95 s50 with no mods. Stock injectors, stock HFM (13621747155). I've tried a 413 stock tune and 506 w/ bav auto chip and they both show the same symptoms.

                        The car runs rich, RPMs start to fluctuate and CEL comes on after about 2 minutes of idling. I've tested the throttle position sensor and the resistance values are fine, but I can't get a voltage reading the way the Bentley manual describes. With it unplugged the CEL was on immediately and the car idled a bit lower.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I had a similar issue with an obd1 s52, it ended up being a bad icv.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Guess I just gotta take off the intake manifold this weekend and go over everything under there with a multimeter and a magnifying glass..

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Bump for the cure?
                              1990 325is
                              m52b28
                              3.73lsd
                              g260 (1987 325is 5spd tranny)

                              Comment

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