Wtf..! Will not go over 4k rmp ...help...

[Jafxod]

TL;DR but my friends volvo had the same issue and it was the throttle position sensor

[isra]

i did not even say a name or anything so to me that is not trashing, but all im saying is that you billed me for 2 hours at 60 an hour ok thats fine but you SAID " IT WILL TAKE ME 2 HOURS TO FIND THE PROBLEM AN FIX IT, ALSO GET YOUR TEMP GAUGE TO WORK"
you did none.

TEMP GAUGE: you said that the temp sensor was not working wen i know that temp sensor work because it was in my car i purchased new, an i had another one in the car next to the shift knob. first one did not work because you did not ground the adapter..! an i told you that i had a water leak that i just put to wires to hold the hoses so i can make it to your shop. again thinking you were going to fix the tempgauge thats why the coolant was in the car. NOW THE WIRES ARE STILL HOLDING THE HOSES WTF YOU DID NOT HAVE TO CLAMPS TO PUT IN IT...? ALSO TEMPGAUGE NOT WORKING. to me you did anything.

ENGINE PROBLEM: when i took the car you said you were going to fix it in 2 hours like i said before. when i got there first thing you said that i did not have a cap for the harness, you told me to go to a pick n pull an find one witch i went the next day you never told me you where going to get one..! when i got the car back the tach was not working the temp gauge was not working an it had the same problem even worse the car died on me 4 times when i got off 880 freeway.. WTF is that what you call fixing a car..? an it was my mistake because i did not take it for a spin. Yesterday i went back to your shop YES we did alot of testing an you said everything was ok but the problem was still there them 2 hours later you tell me that is was my injector WTF..? now heres the funny paart YOUR A FUNNY GUY YOU SAID IT WAS MY INJECTORS RIGHT? THEM YOU SAID I HAVE THE OTHER INJECTORS YOU NEED I CAN "SELL THEM TO YOU" LOL....WHAT..? YOU WERE GOING TO GO TO PICK N PULL GET SOME FOR FREE AN SELL THEM TO ME..? WHAT I THINK WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.. WAS, FOOOOOR YOUUUUUUUUU TO PUT THE INJECTORS CHECK If THAT WAS THE PROBLEM AN THEM TELL ME YOU KNOW WHAT THAT WAS THE PROBLEM, AN WE WOULD WORK SOMETHING OUT. BUUUUUUUUUT NO YOU ACT LIKE A SMART ASS AN IM NOT STUPID.
AN i'll tell you why im not "STUPID" you think i dont know that You switch the thing that holds the hood open.. what ever is called. but thats ok.

BUTTOM LINE PEOPLE THINK THAT 140 DOLLAR IS CHEAP.. AN YEAH IT IS BUT WHEN YOU GET YOUR CAR "FIX"....AN THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SAYING GOOD THINGS ABOUT YOU ARE YOUR FREINDS..LOL.

I AGREE WITH "HIGHOUTPUT" YOU GET PAID WHEN YOU FIX THE CAR .I HAVE A FRIEND WITH A 300ZX THAT HAD A PROBLEM THE CAR WAS IN THE SHOP FOR OER 3 WEEKS THE GUY WAS WORKING ON IT HE COULD NOT FIND PROBLEM DID NOT CHARGE HIM A PENNY.
AN WHAT M-TECHNIK SAID if it happens to alot of car then maybe that person needs a new job.:)

oh an I*Do*Werke i made a mistake when writing the thread. an you need to understand what you are reading i just made i comment

almost forgot your saying you where driving car for 40 min "HOW" if i only put 10 dollars on the tank an your shop is 25 miles away. LOOOOL . all that is in the past

NOW
can anybody answeer my question? can the injectors be the problem?

[Wanganstyle]

if you want to know how m52 with m52 injectors and M50 DME setting should drive; call TRM or turner or Miller and ask them. They will know best- that is the business they are in, no one here will have as 100% clear viewpoint as them.
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IF it drives like garbage, the mechanical/electronical set up is incorrect. Garbage in garbage out. Silicone valley computer nerd language.

ECU is dumping fuel because it dosn't know any better (ecu cannot figure out injector is wrong size unless you tell it).
you may have other strange problems underlying, usually there are more than 1 when a swap is not 100%. Count the threads of swap problems and log the results, the math is simple.


To know how bad 16% extra fuel makes an engine run basically unplug a spark plug on a good stock m20 and thats how your m52 should be running- 1 cylinder % of too much fuel going into your engine from the wrong injectors. remove one spark element, and the fuel/spark balance is just that- MISSMATCHED.

IF you feed an animal too much food, it gets fat. Your engine is running like a overweight animal; not very efficiently.

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If the wiring adapter is sketchy, this is the stop point for most shops.

If you didn't solder or shrink wrap the connections, you are risking electrical fire. Basically you would be lighting your own car on fire.
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IF your water system is held together with "wires" I'm assuming zip-ties?

IS the rest of the car assembled in similar mechanical fashion??? Just like how kids who get good grades get into good schools and make $$bank$$..........strange cobbling parts in the engine bay is a very good indicator of potential setup problems.

With weird connectors and weird fasteners comes weird problems.....


Did you replace all the intake manifold gaskets with proper brand new O rings? did you complete the M50 manifold conversion on the M52 with complete vacuum routing correct- it is confusing and can be messed up if you are not careful, common mistake- no reason not to admit- I have done it before.

Strange vacuum leaks could be on the intake manifold, did you change the M52 intake manifold with a M50 unit? if so, have you checked for vacuum leak? I have found many swaps to have bad intake manifold gaskets in many situations (my first engine swap a decade ago had one leaky cylinder due to poor intake manifold gasket installation and non-replacement with new item). If the intake manifold gaskets were not changed with new, you probably have an intake manifold gasket leak as well.

IF a good OEM m20 temp sensor is installed in the M52 engine and wired correctly to the gauge cluster, the temp sensor should work 100%. Why did it have a problem to begin with? if it was once working and then made itself not work: you have a wiring connection problem.
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A professional shop is performing an ala carte service when asked to comb over a DIY swap that is not running correctly.

I have been swapping cars of all sorts for the last decade. If asked to trouble shoot cars I did not wire (even by good friends) I usually say NO!!!!! NO NO!!!!!!!

it's hell to trouble shoot something you did not build, wire. Who knows how many mickey mouse adaptations have been performed.


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If there is shoddy wiring, some shops will ask you to sign electrical fire disclaimer or the like; it is not the responsibility of the shop owner to un-do poor wiring magically; usually specific swap shops will only wire items from ground 0, not back probe troubleshoot. IF the adapter was a professional unit or supplied by the shop in question, then it would be their responsibility.

Very few situations exist under the sun where a shop can just step in to a randomly done swap and fix it instantly- To keep sanity for swaps, everyone has their own baseline procedure for beginning to troubleshoot.

IF items are not matching OEM spec, then step one to baseline is to make the system work as factory intended, regardless of what "should, i think works" there is only one 100% works: OEM.
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Factory OEM works 100%. item must be factory for the BMW dealership to handle it, if it is not factory then ........it may not work at all or just always be funny.even with 300cc difference, OEM spec electronics must be met first; the HFM unit should meter the additional air increase by the 300cc displacement difference and add more fuel;

In a different car I have ran 1800cc ecu on 2500cc engine before with 1800cc electronics; the AFM adapted pretty well (15,000 miles of dd on that setup with AC, drove X country a few times)

Hard solder the wiring adapter and double check the connection: this is #1.

#2. go to pnp and grab the proper injectors; install them and see.
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First step of approaching any car that I did not swap myself? ...... see if anything at all has been done correctly.

HIGH chances are that if a DIY project has been brought to a shop due to failure, there is something seriously wrong in the setup. Usually DIY guys either nail it right off the bat or puzzle through problems in the first week or so, problems that last beyond a faulty sensor or single wiring issue can drag on for AGES.........

I have wired so many swaps I cannot even list them all........ Just for my own personal cars too!!!

2jzgte -> sc300
ej20-> gc8
S54 -> e36m

Every time is a new clusterf**K of problems. usually the most simple and stupid issues cause the most stress.

As owner and installer of my engine swaps, I have been the idiot that messed things up. Point finger at yours truely.

OP: I have no idea of how Your situation played out, but from a decade of swapping engines.......this is my viewpoint.

JD - perhaps you could have some PNP adapters made PRO-spec perfect on had @ the shop to have for PNP troubleshooting? Just in case I drive over with a e30 24v swap that is shorting./smoking from bad wiring - JK lol

perhaps also, a AFR gauge to meter mixture or m52/s52 chipset for OBD1? If this was a few months ago, I would have gladly contributed a s52 trm chip'ed 403 DME to x reference troubleshooting. My friend's smog shop was a good resource for S54 mixture tuning lol.



I had a S52 complete with stock 21.5 injectors running in my e34it with m50 DME OEM m50 chip, but I did not drive it. only idled and ran to bleed coolant, then installed TRM S52 obd1 chip to drive the car.

suggestions to OP: use the shop advice you spent $time and $money to get. I would.

1. check the adapter with ETK etc etc - hard solder the connections and shrink wrap - I have seen tons of WACK wiring make swaps run like CRAP. or not run, or light on fire. I have made wiring mistakes myself, Everyone does, AA factor - just admit it!

2. Install OEM injectors and do as suggested so you do get what you paid for (diagnosis of situation by somebody else is worth the $140 you paid). IF the M50 is setup perfect with good sensors, the OEM injectors will make it run close to perfect.

3. if the m52 is mechanically perfect to M50 spec, the change of displacement will only be slight (300cc). you can call TRM or someone else who's business is mapping engines to see how they think it should run- 2800cc on 2500cc brains will be slightly off though. miller, Trm, others make a business from tuning and mapping, so they will know what improper tune/setting is like best.

4. if you really want to know what your engine is doing, buy an AFR gauge. AFR tells the mixture, so if you are going to 10:1 AFR or something at stumbling point, your injectors are really too big.

standard NA car AFR target is 14.7:1 stoich, Non turbo cars shouldn't drop much below 12:1 Air fuel ratio if the electronics are functioning properly, if functioning in monitor loop the O2 sensor should be working with ECU to trim AFR and make it as close to 14.7:1 as possible for economy reasons.

for example (a former swap of my own):

MK4 Supra Twin turbo swap 2JZ-GTE with proper injectors to ECU will idle at 14:1 AFR.

With 20% too large injectors installed by yours truely, it idles at 10:1- 11:1 AFR. GARBAGE. GARBAGE GARBAGE, destroying my $6,000 engine.

Without using a standalone or piggy back device to trim the fuel, the 0 mile complete factory 100% 2JZGTE on factory ecu and perfect wiring ran like POOP. Garbage, my m20 would beat it. After proper fuel trim mapping with Wideband meter and SAFC NEO, the MAP only supra ecu was very happy, idled at 13.5:1 and wouldn't get below 12.5:1. cost me $400++ in gas and mega time road mapping @ dangerous speeds to get it right. TRM chip if avail would have been much cheaper!

Also, perhaps try to ask around if anyone local has a trm or similar 403 dme w m52 flash you can borrow and try running? If that dosnt solve your problems I would pin it on bad wiring/sensors.

[M-technik-3]

OP sounds like a tool. I very strongly dislike forum member who post threads about problems that they more than likely caused themselves due to poor workmanship or disregard for proper procedure. JD, you absolutely did the right thing and no one should give you any sh!t for your professionalism

Edit: Also, if OP cant spell "rpm" correctly in the thread title, I dont think he deserves any help...

I try not and harp on the grammar thing because there are people for who English is not their first language.

[Wanganstyle]

I try not and harp on the grammar thing because there are people for who English is not their first language.

English is my third language. Agree

[kronus]

If I could go to a shop and get them to comb through my hacky wiring, tell me what's probably wrong, and then expect to go on my way without paying for the shop's time and experience, something would be seriously wrong with the business.

I guarantee that if your friend with the 300zx told the mechanic to stop attempting to fix it, (instead of waiting for the mechanic to give up), some compensation would have been requested. Time isn't free.

[highoutput]

If I could go to a shop and get them to comb through my hacky wiring, tell me what's probably wrong, and then expect to go on my way without paying for the shop's time and experience, something would be seriously wrong with the business.

I guarantee that if your friend with the 300zx told the mechanic to stop attempting to fix it, (instead of waiting for the mechanic to give up), some compensation would have been requested. Time isn't free.

Really? Then where do you draw the line? You, as a customer, would keep returning to the same shop, if every time you went they looked at your car for an hour or 2, and then told you they couldn't find the problem and they've given up. However, you now owe them money.??? I doubt it.

I'm honestly not siding with the OP, but I'm playing devils avdocate.
I'm doing so because in my 15+ years of working in this field, it rarely works out that I can charge someone and get paid for an uncertain diag,... no repair,.... and send them on their way. It frankly amazes me that so many of you side with the shop.
I honestly question how you each would react if YOU were this kid who just had to pay and leave without his car repaired or a diagnosis beyond "go try this and see if it helps"
Everyone seems to chime in with a three page post full of things that are "probably" wrong with this kids car, and blame it all on him. Well if its all so obvious then why cant a shop thats charging him diag the car??

If thats the way it works, then I hope one of these shops is hiring. I'm the Foreman at a dealership and have been for some time so please give me a call. I could use the money, lol

All I'm saying is theres a reason customers sign a work authorization form before their car gets brought into the shop. To protect both parties and keep things fair. Thats why they "authorize" repair or diag. So everyone gets what they paid for and vice versa.
Flame away:hitler:

[kronus]

Really? Then where do you draw the line? You, as a customer, would keep returning to the same shop, if every time you went they looked at your car for an hour or 2, and then told you they couldn't find the problem and they've given up. However, you now owe them money.??? I doubt it.

That's actually a good point. It's difficult to tell where the line is, but I think when the mechanic has done feasible work, i.e. been useful to the customer, then specialized information has been transferred and work can be said to have been done.

For example, if I was completely ignorant about cars, had an obscure problem, and took my car to a mechanic who looked at it and did a fair amount of diagnosis for a period of time, when it got to the point in the repair process where he tells me what's wrong and I decide whether to act on it or not, the mechanic cannot give me useful information because I do not have the background to fix what they tell me is wrong. If I were to take the car out of the shop at this point, I would feel that no actual work has been done, since the car is the same as before and I do not have additional knowledge on how to fix it.

If, however, I was knowledgeable enough to do a swap, but not knowledgeable enough (or didn't have the tools) to do intricate diagnostics on it, I would expect to have to pay to receive useful information, even if the mechanic ended up not fixing the issue himself because I decided to take the car back. I think this is the situation we're in here, so I feel that a diagnostic fee is reasonable because the customer has benefited from the information given to him by the mechanic.

This is, of course, not always a good metric and can be considered flexible and up to personal interpretation, but I think any attempt at rigid definition will cause situations that are obviously incorrect.

[isra]

ok guys i change the injector,MAF,o2,TPS,sparkplus,diff speed sensor. an i check the cam,crank sensor. an still the car will not let me go over 4k when driving it feels like is struggling to go over 4k but i can feel the car that wants to keep going but something is holding it... can it be that maybe i just needs a chip?

i can reset the ECU and that car will drive fine for 10-15 min then it gets in to that mode that wont let me r3v higher. i was told car had 1222 CODE

[Wanganstyle]

You need to pull the codes now, since you changed pretty much all sensors (including the one for code 1222) you may have no code at all. or a different code or same codes.

Simple google search for that code led me to here;

This guy had a giant vacuum leak.

Did you replace intake manifold gaskets (6) with all brand new?

http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10026

[isra]

does are the only gaskets i did not change because they looked good n clean, but the car idles very good 700-800, when i unplug the 02 or MAF i can go up to 5500 but i feels like the engine is struggling. dont know if that makes a difference.

can the gaskets be the problem?

[Wanganstyle]

You can smoke test to see if there is a vacuum leak, that would be the best way. Or idle and spray brakecleanr/starting fluid in the areas of engine bay and see if idle increases from extra fuel.

The Engine may be running waaaaaay lean because your engine is 300cc too big and Ecu is picking up this via o2/knock sensors and therefore going to "safety" mode. If you went to a smog dyno it would tell how what the mixture was, a wideband o2 sensor with datalogging or a passenger to datalog a non logging gauge would be ideal.

Wide band o2 sensor (different than stock) is designed to tell the mixture of air to fuel ratio, this is the chemical equation that sets your engine performance n

[jahnaboi]

What year is the car you put the m52 in?

[isra]

hey jahnaboi my car is a 1986 325es'

wanganstyle i will take the car to my friends smog shop to see if can can find out the mixture.

also can i get a little more info in the wideband o2 can you pm me the info thanks

[Wanganstyle]

google search

"wide band o2 sensor"