Useless Mods; Which is the least useless

[bubbajan21]

I'm just finishing up my M50 swap and I want to buy myself a "Go Fast" part. I've got headers, exhaust, intake, chip, etc. but I just want to splurge on one more little go fast parts. The two things I'm looking at are UUC Underdrive Pulleys and a Riot Racing 68mm Throttle Body. Yes I know these both might be snake oil and the feelable gains will be minuscule (if any), but that is not what this thread is about, it's about which one will produce a better improvement to my car. Both parts are $200, so price is not a factor. Anyone with experience with either of these things, please chime in. In a Eurotuner article, they dyno'd both parts on the same car, same dyno, same conditions. They saw with the UUC Pulleys a peak gain of 5.5hp at 6300 RPM and a redline gain of 2 hp. With the TB, they saw a peak gain of 5.4 hp at 6900 RPM and "a fairly consistent 3-5hp gain from 4000rpm onwards" My real draw to the TB is throttle response more than power, while I like the pulleys for the slightly easier revving that I have read about.

In any case, read about each one for yourself and let me know your thoughts:
Throttle Body - http://www.westcoastriots.com/htmlfiles/obd1.html
UUC Pulleys - http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/udp/udp...escription.htm

Eurotuner Article - http://www.eurotuner.com/techarticle...ing/index.html

[jrdeamicis]

S50 cams and a set of new lifters- since I am sure yours are nearing the end of their life.

[1st Attempt]

S50 cams and a set of new lifters- since I am sure yours are nearing the end of their life.

+1 Isn't that itself like 10-20hp increase?

[bubbajan21]

S50 cams aren't exactly bolt-on or cheap...
I'm just looking for one last little thing, and S50 cams is a bit more than I'm willing to tackle right now. And to be honest, messing up the timing really kinda scares me, so I would want to have these professionally installed, which alone would cost more than $200 on top of the price of the cams.

[luckysnafu]

Get the s50 cams, they are the only mod you will actually notice any gains. If you need help installing let me know (I'm in central mass) since I just installed s52 cams in my m52 a couple months ago. I have all the necessary timing tools needed.

[bubbajan21]

OK, so I've done some looking into the cams. It looks like market value for a set of used S50 cams is about $300, New lifters would be $325, a new Turner Chip would be another $250, and if I had everything opened up, I would want to put in a Dr. Vanos ($250) just because everything would already be all apart. That's $1125 assuming I did it myself (or with the help of luckysnafu). For a Daily Driver, the top end gains and cost associated with the cams don't really make sense. I would rather just leave the cams alone and a few years down the road, just pull the M50, swap over all bolt-ons onto an S50/52, and be all set. The cost of the cam swap would put me half way to just buying an S50!

And besides, I haven't driven my car in so long, I miss it. I couldn't stand to tear it right back apart right after it all goes back together.

So.... What do we think on the TB vs. the Pulleys?:D

[hoveringuy]

My real draw to the TB is throttle response more than power

I'm of the opinion that a larger TB actually hurts throttle response. The increase in voltage that signals the ECU to increase the juice is lower because the plate doesn't need to rotate as much for increased airflow.

This is particularly true at lower throttle settings.


There is a lag between opening the throttle plate and the MAF registering it. TPS voltage is supposed to make it more instantaneous.

[bubbajan21]

I'm of the opinion that a larger TB actually hurts throttle response. The increase in voltage that signals the ECU to increase the juice is lower because the plate doesn't need to rotate as much for increased airflow.

This is particularly true at lower throttle settings.


There is a lag between opening the throttle plate and the MAF registering it. TPS voltage is supposed to make it more instantaneous.

Your logic makes sense to me. I'm just looking at the responses of people who have put bigger Throttle bodies on M50's and they all seem positive;

"The car revvs MUCH faster now. It almost feels like a "weak" ltw flywheel. The response is very crisp and the throttle is instantaneous when you touch the gas. Before, it would take a sec. for the motor to wind up and start revving nicely. Now, as soon as you touch the gas, the revvs shoot."

"After getting the Big Bore throttle body, i cannot express how awesome it did the job, car feels great, throttle responce is amazing, and my idle is now completely fixed. I could not be happier. Anyone who is trying to really help their engines responce, do yourself a favor and get one of these, its worth every penny."

I do however know first hand the huge power gains associated with putting the top down in a Miata!;)

[hoveringuy]

Your logic makes sense to me.

The car revvs MUCH faster now.

Speaking from experience, the larger TB makes the car feel quicker because it makes the gas pedal more sensitive. GM used to do that with their cars, they'd put a really aggressive cam on the TB that made it open wildly with the first stab on the pedal, then opened more slowly the rest of the way.

The impression test-driving the car was that it had a lot of power.

[bubbajan21]

Are you saying this is a bad thing? It seems to me that (for a DD atleast), a car that feels faster would be more important than a car that is faster. It's the kinda like having a 4.10 rear end; a 3.73 would probably be faster in a drag race, but you wouldn't get that same sense of acceleration. More feeling of speed with less real speed is perfect for my car, less chance of getting a ticket.

[Roysneon]

I like the idea of the pulleys the most because you're not sacrificing power anywhere in the rev range, you're just using less of it for things other than turning the wheels.

[lbreevesii]

Kinda off topic, but it was mentioned.

Not to rag on Dr Vanos, but why don't you just buy a set of seals from Besian systems. Its not hard at all to do. After the vanos is off it takes all of 5 bolts to take the piston out.

[bubbajan21]

I like the idea of the pulleys the most because you're not sacrificing power anywhere in the rev range, you're just using less of it for things other than turning the wheels.

If you take a look at the Dyno graph of the TB, it doesn't lose HP or TQ anywhere.

[hoveringuy]

If you take a look at the Dyno graph of the TB, it doesn't lose HP or TQ anywhere.

250hp. This is a motor that sucks a lot of air, but it shows that the stock TB is perfectly fine for an M50.

[e30s50dan]

Save your money...go to the track! :)