explain this to me

[nando]

The M50 is MUCH easier to work on.

You have obviously never worked on a M50 family head before.

M20's are ALOT more simple to work on, requiring only basic tools for pretty much any job.

Try to disassemble a M50 head without several BMW special tools. You will wind up with 2 snapped cams, and forever incorrect cam timing.

considering I managed to disassemble and put together an M20 head with no prior experience (or even looking in a manual), I'm going with Jordan on this one. the M20 is just much simpler....

[Brew]

Here's a few:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393378&highlight=250whp

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375439&highlight=OBD1+3.2+dyno

Here's a 2.9 making 245whp:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=188833&highlight=2.9

[screamingbmwe30]

installed cams (custom), bigger HFM, bigger injectors, software and dynoed it again aa engine.....= $$$$$

whatever. this is great for these guys. but i dont have that kind of budget. im sure it is fun though!!

[arsevader]

The M50 is MUCH easier to work on.

You have obviously never worked on a M50 family head before.

M20's are ALOT more simple to work on, requiring only basic tools for pretty much any job.

Try to disassemble a M50 head without several BMW special tools. You will wind up with 2 snapped cams, and forever incorrect cam timing.

considering I managed to disassemble and put together an M20 head with no prior experience (or even looking in a manual), I'm going with Jordan on this one. the M20 is just much simpler....

One of the biggest hurdles for anybody 'working' on an M50 type head is the special tools needed in order to take pressure off the cams when removing them. As Jordon says do this incorrectly and you will snap the cams pretty much guarenteed.

Not much on an M20 that even a numbskull like myself can break easily.

James

[Brew]

The M50 is MUCH easier to work on.

You have obviously never worked on a M50 family head before.

M20's are ALOT more simple to work on, requiring only basic tools for pretty much any job.

Try to disassemble a M50 head without several BMW special tools. You will wind up with 2 snapped cams, and forever incorrect cam timing.

considering I managed to disassemble and put together an M20 head with no prior experience (or even looking in a manual), I'm going with Jordan on this one. the M20 is just much simpler....

I'm not trying to argue that the M50 cylinder head is easier to work on, I'm talking about BASIC MAINTENANCE stuff. How about valve adjustments and timing belts?

Jordan-The M50 serpentine belt? Any douchebag can look at the old one before replacing it, I don't see your point.

[Brew]

installed cams (custom), bigger HFM, bigger injectors, software and dynoed it again aa engine.....= $$$$$

whatever. this is great for these guys. but i dont have that kind of budget. im sure it is fun though!!

Those are obviously pretty heavily modded engines with a fair amount of money dumped into them, as are 200+whp M20s.
The fact of the matter is that an M50 can make a TON more power than an M20, period.

[Drew325is]

Re: explain this to me

maybe 15 more horse than a healthy m20 but with more weight. and all up high.

Just so you have the numbers comparing two E30s, one with a stock & very well looked after M20B25 and one with a stock low mileage M50TUB25:





22kw (~30hp) at the wheels from the M50B25. I can also say from having driven in the M50 powered E30 that the difference is more than the numbers give it credit for. It's got more push everywhere than the M20, and is smoother, quieter and more refined.

So as to whether you spend up on the M20 or an M50 conversion depends on what you want from you car. Power without compromise, or just the most power for the least dollars.

[FredK]

Jordan-The M50 serpentine belt? Any douchebag can look at the old one before replacing it, I don't see your point.

True, I'm a douchebag and I replaced the serpentine belt fairly easily, without any manuals. There aren't too many ways it will go on correctly...

[Jason89i]

cams can be done CAREFULLY without the specialy tool for compressing. I did it. Half of the shops around here have done it. Yes, there is a risk though.

I have 7 track days and 30k daily miles on my m50. ......nothing but oil changes. (except for that alternator the week after the conversion) If i tried to get the same hp out of the m20 and drove it that hard for that long, im quite sure i would have had a broken rocker by now. ive owned 5 or 6 e30's with the m20b25......i would much rather spin a wrench on the m50.

not an expert, but its just my opinion.

[arsevader]

cams can be done CAREFULLY without the specialy tool for compressing. I did it. Half of the shops around here have done it. Yes, there is a risk though.

This is also true and there are work arounds for pretty much everything, but a lot of people don't even know about the pressure put on the cams. They would assume that they are just like any old cam, expecially if they've torn apart an M20.

James

[Brew]

cams can be done CAREFULLY without the specialy tool for compressing. I did it. Half of the shops around here have done it. Yes, there is a risk though.

I have 7 track days and 30k daily miles on my m50. ......nothing but oil changes. (except for that alternator the week after the conversion) If i tried to get the same hp out of the m20 and drove it that hard for that long, im quite sure i would have had a broken rocker by now. ive owned 5 or 6 e30's with the m20b25......i would much rather spin a wrench on the m50.

not an expert, but its just my opinion.

Thank you.
:)

[joshh]

If you think by porting the head and putting high compression pistons in the motor that your going to see those numbers, your nuts. Its not going to happen. You'll be lucky to get it up to the stock M50 power.
You also have to think with modding the internals and its new "reliability". With the M50 you just replace all the routine stuff and the motor will go a very long time.