M60b40 VS s50b30 E30 Swap

[surebimmer]

why m60 and not m62?

[Mr. Burns]

why m60 and not m62?

it's definately doable, however more concentration on electronics/ecu BS that's not worth it.
also, more coverage on M60's online.

[Lurker27]

S50. You can't beat the ease of install. Plus, I6s are more BMW-ey. A modded S50 will light the rear tires up at almost any reasonable time, the only reason to do the m60 is to be different/like v8 noise, imo.

[Mr. Burns]

here my issue.

I have access to BOTH engines under $1K.
both have descent KM' (not super high)

I'm seeing people spending upwards to 12K on a S50 swap wtf?
perhaps rebuilding the engine, with titanium valvpsprings and retardeness, but just a simple 'swap' with either engine SHOULD come under the 4K mark EASILY.

[mo diesil]

24v and turbo and done

[e30polak]

IMO not worth the effort unless you can get the motor for free. An s50/2 with full bolt-ons and a tune will be almost as fast, and if you do Sunbelt cams with Euro headers on either s5x motor, you're looking at 260-275whp.

The M60 will have more torque, but it's a lot of work for not as worthy of a gain. If you want to do a v8, do a real one and go with an LS1. :p

[2002maniac]

S50 is old hat :p

I would do the M60 swap (and will if my 540i ever gets wrecked) even though it would be a ton more work.

[bmwmech1]

Lots of good questions in this thread and I'll jump in since I'm in the middle of the M60/62 hybrid swap, as we speak. If you want a V8 in your E30, then an M/S5x isn't going to blow your skirt up, so to speak. Not knocking the 6 cylinder swap as it's straightforward and well documented and there are plenty of bad-ass M/S5x swapped cars running around with a ton more HP than an M6x car will make. That being said, I agree that it's been done and done well, whereas the V8 swaps are not as common, so the "wow" factor is a little higher. I think most of the larger hurdles have been covered, so lets talk about the M6x swap in a little more detail...

1. Transmission- either E34 530i 5 speed or E34, E39 or E39 M5 6 speed. Both require different clutch/flywheels, but either will work, effort varies. Mounts for 5 speed are stock E30, 6 speed has to be made.
2. Motor Mounts- can be bought or made, I made mine, pretty simple to do.
3. Cooling- E36M3 or Z3M radiator drops in, Z3M is the preference, since it's 3 row.
4. Exhaust- E38, E39 or X5 4.4 manifolds are necessary to start with, the rest has to be custom made... enough said
5. Braking- Easiest to source an E34 V8 brake setup and retrofit.
6. Electrics- 404 DME from an E34 or E32 V8 car, harness can be made for C101 connector pretty easily.
7. Driveshaft- E30 M3, E36 328i, early E36 M3 4 bolt are bolt in for the 5 speed, 6 speed is more work, due to longer length of trans.

That's about all of the major stuff to swap in a V8, minus the work/time involved. I researched this swap pretty heavily before I started my project, so I have a lot of answers to the questions that come up and I'm actually doing the swap now in my M3 project, so if anyone has any questions, just ask...:) I also own an E34 540 6 speed, so I'm very familiar with the powerplant(s) and what can and can't be done with them, as far as interchangability of parts, etc...

Garey

[slammin.e28]

32v > 24v It's proven mathematically.

[The Humjet]

How about the brake booster relocation?

OP I say forget all this and get yourself a Windsor instead. Cheap, nice compact motors and heaps of aftermarket add on bits to make it go faster. And they're easier to fit and sound awesome.
I work with American v8's day in day out and we have a few 363ci Windsor motors in the shop with Dart blocks pushing over 450hp.

[Mr. Burns]

Wow awesome info Garey.

In respect to the trans, m60b30 from. E34 530 will bolt right up to the m60b40.
I was under the impression the DS would fit?

As far as DME....404 ecu + full wireharness from parts car? Or can the existing 173 e30 m20b25 wireharness be retro'd to fit to port with the 404?

Otherwise...after studying this swap for months, it doesn't seem all that bad. Half the fun is in the hunt right? Lol

Either way, just need some clarity on the ecu/wireharness and driveshaft fitment.

Cheers-

[bmwmech1]

How about the brake booster relocation?

Check item 5...

Fords are great motors too, just not in an E30. I know that argument has been run out, so I'll not get involved in it again. OP has asked which of 2 motors should he swap, not which motor in general. Someone else said earlier to swap in an LS1... another good motor, but again, not relevant to this thread. I can appreciate everyone's desire to add in what motor they feel most comfortable with or which one they think he should use, but it's kind of falling on deaf ears in this thread. Not being an ass, just trying to keep the discussion on point...

Garey

[Wh33lhop]

Lots of good questions in this thread and I'll jump in since I'm in the middle of the M60/62 hybrid swap, as we speak.

What do you mean by hybrid--are you just OBD1 swapping a NV M62? What's involved in that exactly?

Also, I'm curious what sort of numbers an M60 vs. OBDI M62 put down. Seems like an M60 with a tune sits at around 250whp.

[bmwmech1]

Wow awesome info Garey.

In respect to the trans, m60b30 from. E34 530 will bolt right up to the m60b40.
I was under the impression the DS would fit?

As far as DME....404 ecu + full wireharness from parts car? Or can the existing 173 e30 m20b25 wireharness be retro'd to fit to port with the 404?

Otherwise...after studying this swap for months, it doesn't seem all that bad. Half the fun is in the hunt right? Lol

Either way, just need some clarity on the ecu/wireharness and driveshaft fitment.

Cheers-

Okay,
I am using the 5 speed in my build with a JB Racing E39 540 aluminum flywheel and a clutch kit from an E36/E39 2.8L car. The clutch setup needed for the 5 speed is a 240mm 10 spline , which is common to a bunch of BMW's. The E34 5 speed trans is the E36 M3 5 speed transmission with a bellhousing to mate up with any of the M/S6x V8s. As far as the driveshaft goes, the E34 5 speed uses a large diameter flex disc output flange, which means you must use a driveshaft with the correct large diameter flex disc input flange front half AND the correct 4 bolt rear half to mate up with the 188 diff thats in the E30. I listed the correct options in the post above, which will bolt in with no mods.

As far as the wiring goes, you need the engine harness and 404 DME from a manual V8 OBDI car, preferably the car the engine came from, if it's OBDI. You need to make a "connector" harness, just like the ones Rogue sells for the M5x swaps, for the C101 connector in the car to the engine harness connector, assuming your car has a C101 connector. Since these E30s and E34s were from the same "era", most of the wiring is similar, as far as what is in each loom, diameters and in some cases, even colors. I makes it simpler, but not plug and play. That would be too easy and as you've said, half the fun is the hunt. The swap is not bad and things that take time are usually worth doing. Just depends on what you are after... I wanted a V8 powered E30 M3, so I'm building one, since BMW didn't. That's pretty much it...:D

Garey

[bmwmech1]

What do you mean by hybrid--are you just OBD1 swapping a NV M62? What's involved in that exactly?

Also, I'm curious what sort of numbers an M60 vs. OBDI M62 put down. Seems like an M60 with a tune sits at around 250whp.

Good eye, was wondering who all would catch that... Nope, I am using the best of both motors. A late model, 2001 4.4L shortblock with the early, 1994 B40 heads and timing drive. Nets me a bump in displacement, a bump in compression, dual valve spring heads and a dual row timing chain. In the process, it becomes OBDI, as well. AFAIK, the HP numbers between the M60 and the M62 are identical... 282DIN. I've seen claims of 260-270 WHP in E34's, don't know how real they are. That's plenty healthy for an E30, considering the torque a V8 brings to the table...

Garey