M60b40 VS s50b30 E30 Swap

[e30polak]

The weight you quote for the LS1 is grossly inaccurate. The long blocks for the aluminum engines are down around 350 lbs, 375-400ish dressed, depending on the accessory drive. Granted, the T56 is a large heavy transmission... but with a 5.4 ratio spread on the close ratio boxes and a 0.5:1 sixth gear, nothing BMW builds is even close.

A bare LS1 cylinder head is about 15 lbs. How much does a bare M60 cylinder head? 30+? The M60 also has four cams, 32 valves & hydraulic lifters, etc.
It is VERY VERY difficult for a DOHC engine to be lighter than a comparable pushrod engine. The relationship of weight should be pretty apparent to anyone who's seen a DOHC engine next to a pushrod engine. The pushrod engine looks tiny, despite having more than 1.5 litres more displacement.

There was also a comment on gas mileage... It's easy for V8's to get good gas mileage. A stock Corvette can pull down 30 mpg on the highway if driven carefully. The big engines just have to be geared correctly; hence the T56. The same principle applies to the 4.0... it gets significantly better mileage than the M30 3.5 litre six because of higher compression and taller gearing. The greater displacement, higher compression and better breathing give it enough low RPM torque to pull a tall gearset and get better mileage.

To the OP:
The thread has "lost focus" because there's NOTHING more to discuss. Pretty much all the relevant info had been presented in two pages. Garey and one or two other knowledgeable people who have actual experience with the actual engine have laid out the pros/cons. That's really all there is to it. Make your choice and do what you want.

Thank you for clarifying. I've heard numerous times that an LS1 is close to the weight of a fully dressed s50/2, but I may be wrong.

I agree with everything else you've stated.

[Mr Two]

I really want to see someone with scales measure all motors under the same conditions (fluids, dry, accessories, or none) because there always seems to be a shitload of different measurements.

If I pick up the M62 I saw today, I'll be able to set it side by side an Ls1 this winter, though!

[bmwmech1]

Garey-

I have a Q regarding the driveshaft.

an' early model E36 M3 REAR driveshaft is all I need? or do I need both front and rear?

this will be mated to a M60b30 tranny....

You need both ends, the front being the more important because of the large flex disc flange to mate up with the B30 5 speed. The E36 328i DS will also work, as well as the E30 M3. Biggest reason to get the whole DS is so you don't have to have it re-balanced...

Garey

[bmwmech1]

Aaannnnd....instead of oem X5 4.4 manifolds, ebay has some manifolds which bolt up to the m60 engine for about 300....thoughts?

Depends on what vehicle they're out of. ONLY E39 540, late E38 or X5 manifolds will work. The drivers side needs to be the 4 into 1 design to clear the steering column and the passenger side is tight enough, even without the column, so the 4 into 2 into 1 makes it a little simpler to route the exhaust down without major firewall shenanigans...

Here are some pics of my modified manifolds next to a pair of late E38 manifolds. Notice the differences. These are the style you need for this swap...

Modified in the middle...


Drivers side, modified on the bottom...



Passenger side, again, modified on the bottom...


Garey

[Mr. Burns]

perfect, thanks again-

I appologize for all the "clarity questions" but it's nice to know someone is doing this aswell....it's easier than the costly "trial and error" route I was travelling down.

[ill4noreason]

I've got a m62 fs for 550 with under 100k on it. pm me if you wanna check it out.

[bmwmech1]

perfect, thanks again-

I appologize for all the "clarity questions" but it's nice to know someone is doing this aswell....it's easier than the costly "trial and error" route I was travelling down.

Yup, no problem. Glad to help out... pointed questions are fine.

Garey

[bmwmech1]

I've got a m62 fs for 550 with under 100k on it. pm me if you wanna check it out.

Good deal for someone local... early M62 or late?

Garey

[The Dark Side of Will]

If the LS1 has to sit futher forward vs. m6x, that would be one good reason to go with m6x imho of course.

M60 is wide, but it's short, and not having to deal with oil pan modification is a plus as well.

Source for this info?
Photographic examples of LS1/E30 engine placement?

The LS1/Miata has a similar problem in that the bellhousing is just a little too wide for the transmission tunnel. With fairly minimal modification to the trans tunnel--which, AIUI, does not affect fitment of any interior components--the engine can be situated properly in the compartment. Maybe the E30 is similar?

Regardless, the S5D-310Z bellhousing for the M60 fits, as does the rest of the transmission with essentially no modifications.

[slammin.e28]

Main difference between the Miata and an e30 is you're gay in the Miata, in the e30...it's debatable.

I have friends who auto-x Miatas, so don't tell me about how well they do, I still make fun of them.

[bmwmech1]

Main difference between the Miata and an e30 is you're gay in the Miata, in the e30...it's debatable.

I have friends who auto-x Miatas, so don't tell me about how well they do, I still make fun of them.

Yup, lol...

Garey

[InuFaye]

Main difference between the Miata and an e30 is you're gay in the Miata, in the e30...it's debatable.

I have friends who auto-x Miatas, so don't tell me about how well they do, I still make fun of them.

Its only debatable when you cover the thing in argyle.

Also E30>E28.

[Jean]

I weighted my m10 and m30, will do the same with m60 :)

Source for this info?
Photographic examples of LS1/E30 engine placement?

The LS1/Miata has a similar problem in that the bellhousing is just a little too wide for the transmission tunnel. With fairly minimal modification to the trans tunnel--which, AIUI, does not affect fitment of any interior components--the engine can be situated properly in the compartment. Maybe the E30 is similar?

Regardless, the S5D-310Z bellhousing for the M60 fits, as does the rest of the transmission with essentially no modifications.

scroll up, was posted here.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Oh yeah... I knew it had been mentioned in this thread; just forgot it was a shop actually doing it.

I *DO* have questions about an engine sitting too far forward because of the transmission when it's *ALSO* sitting too high...

I haven't read Garret's entire thread ( http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=699289 ), but I did find a picture of the engine looking a bit further forward than it should ( http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...3&postcount=93 )

I *Quickly* glanced through the Vorschlag build thread ( http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums...ad.php?t=42099 ) but couldn't find a comparable shot of their car. They didn't use a T56 anyway.

Anyway, it looks like the modified GTO pan is what's keeping the engine up, and what's keeping it up is what's keeping it forward.

I have a hard time believing that with the multitude of products like this on the market: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-20140/?rtype=10 that the modified GTO pan is the *ONLY* way to make that engine fit. Not buying it. Vorschlag built theirs the way they did because they were building it *DIRT* cheap. Everyone else who's built there's the same way since then is copy-catting.
Spending a couple hundred on a drop-in pan seems like a no-brainer to me...

[Mr Two]

You are underestimating just how massive that bellhousing is on the T56.