Are you happy with your engine swap?

[Hornswoggler]

Hello everybody! This is my first post here! Yes, I am a and proud of it.

First, to introduce myself, I have a 1997 M3 coupe and a 1991 535i. I have been kicking around the idea for a while to sell my 535i and get an e30 (which I should have bought in the first place). While the e34 is a good car, it’s bigger than what I am used to and does not feel as “nimble” as I would like. It is faster than my previous DD (93 Maxima) but doesn’t feel nearly as tossable… which makes me want an e30 instead.

So I hear you guys have some fun with these engine swaps, eh? Sounds like a nice and challenging project. When I do find the e30 of my dreams, I might have to join the ranks of those who have done the swap. I have never swapped an engine before but maybe with the right newbie guide, anything is possible, lol.

Before diving into all the nuts and bolts of making this swap happen, I want to hear more about everybody’s experience with the swap or their attempts. Thanks in advance if you can take the time to answer a few questions:

1. Are you happy with the engine swap end result?
2. Did you do the swap yourself, with friends/family, or did a shop do it?
3. Are there any gotcha’s or things that do not work as expected?
4. Did your swap go beyond estimated budget? Roughly how much did it cost (total)?
5. What model did you start with? (i.e. 318, 325, 325es, 325i, vert, M3, etc.)
6. What engine did you put in?
7. Do you have acceleration numbers on your post-swap vehicle? (timeslips, g-tech runs, etc.) Driving impressions before/after?
8. Would you do it all over again? What would you do differently next time?


This could almost be a e30 swap registry!

[Hornswoggler]

alright, 40 views and no replies?

If you have your write-up or driving impressions already posted somewhere, just a link would be fine. I don't want anybody to type extra... just thought this would be a great chance to share your success story and compare trials and tribulations with others who have done the swap.

Or is this board mostly lurkers, with only a rare few who have swapped?

[325Projectz]

Many many people on this board have done the swap, but its extra typing.

1. Yeah, I was happy with my swap. But do it right.
2. Did the swap myself, but unless you have lots of tools you'll find yourself running down to grab some tools as you go.
3. Read, read, and read some more to make sure that you got all the right parts for your swap. Everything has been covered over and over again. Everything thing went well.
4. Who's doesn't unless you start with a high number, but everyone (almost) is too cheap to do that. I rebuilt a m50tu and the whole swap ran about ~$4k. Never had a problem with that car. Its now 84e's car and he'll even tell you that it runs good. Because I didn't cheap out, replace everything!
5. 87 325iS the first time, 91 M3 the second.
6. Doing it again right now. Spend even more money up front and put in a bigger motor (S5X).

And welcome to r3v.

[Addissimo]

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=53516&highlight=fast

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=53736&highlight=fast

from the second link:

Okay- Here is what I spent:

$800 - 1993 525i engine with harness and accessories shipped
$350 - 1993 325i Transmission with flywheel
$200 - 1995 M3 AFM & chipped ECU - REALLY good deal from a friend
$180 - Clutch
$160 - 2.93 LSD - DON'T GO FOR THIS GEAR SET
$80 - New cooling hoses
$60 - Replaced rusty ignition coils
$60 - Metal impeller water pump
$50 - K&N Cone filter
$50 - e36 engine mounting arms
$40 - e28 engine mounts
$40 - z4 ssk
$25 - Spark plugs
$20 - Metal thermostat housing
$17 - Thermostat

$2082 total - Here are my thoughts on the avenues I went:

-Stick with the stock e30 tranny and 3.73 LSD... maybe drop down to a 3.46 or something along those lines. I really dislike my tranny/diff setup right now. Its slow to go, and it has ok highspeed cruising revs ( about 4200 @100mph) I miss the overdrive on the e30 tranny.

-Its worth it to go with an e34 engine... you save about $200 on the oil pan, and you dont have the head ache of trying to find one used.

-Go for the ix booster rather than the e21 booster. The e21 booster isnt strong enough to lock your brakes up (my friend and my experience anyway.)

-Try to get your engine with AFM and ECU, chances are you'll save alot of money there than if you were to buy them separately.

Thats all I can think of right now. I really enjoy my m50 swap thus far, even with my shitty gears I'm substantially faster than I used to be, I can only imagine what its like with real gears and a single mass flywheel. If you want a crazy fast car go with the s50, but I think an m50 is good enough for most of us.

-Addis

That being said:

I was working on a 3.2 build up, but last night was fortunate enough to buy a nearly complete 2.8l with 70k miles for $200 + $300 shipping.

I'm abandoning the 3.2 for now, I'll probably keep the parts and stick it in a hard top down the line.

I'm running stand alone fuel management, SDSefi that is. I haven't driven my car with it yet- but one of my friends has it in his 430whp e30 m3, and he loves it. SDS installed their system on a bone stock e30 325is (not even exhaust or cia) and got a 1.5 second faster 0-60 time. I think complete stand alone is the way to go, if you have the money.

As far as your car selection: Steer clear of verts. They're fun in the summer, and you'll get laid by just about every chick that rides in it (after hearing that engine roar through the custom exhaust) but its seriously not worth it. With the m50, you'll want to track it, and you can't. damnit.

I'd get the cleanest car you can.

If I were to do it over again, I'd probably get an e30 m3, maybe one that needs a little tlc, keep in mind you can sell virtually any s14 for a minimum of $2500. My friend sold his for $3500 with 140k on an all original engine. Selling that basically paid for half of the shell.

Regular old coupes are nice too though :)

One thing to consider: If you can find an e30 with good mods in a decent price range, go for it, it'll be cheaper than doing all the work yourself.

Look for cars with lots of suspension work is what I'm saying, maybe interior or body work if it suits your taste. You'll probably want to do it down the line at some point, and it'll be alot cheaper to buy it already done than to have the work done to the car yourself.

This is all imho.
hope it helps,
Addis

[DEV0 E30]

325Projectz and Addissimo have pretty much summed it up.

If you want a crazy fast car go with the s50, but I think an m50 is good enough for most of us.

Well said, with an M50 you eventually get "used to" the speed thus wanting more. I plan on curing this itch for speed with one of the few chassises I have lying around later since I bought 325Projectz' E30M50. They really are a lot of fun, and with some large custom exhaust piping you can hear exactly how the motor is breathing.

I've been finding 325s for sub $500 with fine bodies but shot engines, I'd suggest picking one of those up, doing some suspension work, and getting an M50. The cost would still be less than buying a clean E30 and then doing the work on things like suspension.

Only thing I should really add is the M50 oil pan sits LOW, a few inches lower than the M20 oil pan which is already somewhat low. A few measures to protect it would be a skidplate, and not so soft springs.

[bmw332i]

1. Yes, I am happy overall. I still want more power, but all that's left NA is MoTec, and my wife would never let me have a taste ever again if I spent $4k on a steering wheel, and $12k on the EMS.

2. No, I didn't do the swap myself, I paid Schneller to do it. Stage 2.

3. None that I had to deal with.

4. No. I knew up front what it was going to cost.

5. 1989 e30 325i 5-spd 4 door sedan.

6. 1998 e36/7 3.2l MZ3 Roadster engine with 32k miles on it.

7. Why? It's faster than e46 M3's, and e39 M5's, so who cares about 0-60 or 1/4 mile times? I even showed a Turbo 911 GT-1 class car my taillights. It's a new beast. Like some crazy wild animal on crack cocaine. It handles better than anything I've ever driven, and is faster than anything I've ever driven (except for my brother's 1995 Euro 3.8l M5 with serious work, and then, only in a straight line).

8. Yup. The only thing I would have done differently is get Sparco Evo 3's instead of the Milanos. After 6 hours or so in the saddle, my buns hurt.

[permit]

1. I'm sure I would have been happier if I had gone M20-->M5x like everyone else. Instead I went M50-->M52.
2. Did it with a friend.
3. If you're doing the now "off the shelf" M50 swap, then you'll have no problems, however, getting an M52 in is a full custom swap.
4. Way beyond budget, I should have done the S50.
5. 318is. M42-->M20-->M50-->M52
6. OBD1 M52 with S52 cams
7. I'm still under the impression that my engine isn't running how it should.
8. I would have not done the swap at all and lived with the M50, or just done an S50 swap.

[Hornswoggler]

My first idea was to swap the S52 from my 97 M3 (246 rwhp N/A) into an e30 and just get an S50B32 for my e36... that would be a nice cascade!

except it sounds like a lot of extra hassle and expense converting the engine from OBD-II to OBD-I.

Anybody ever swap in a S50B30 or S50B32 into an e30? Are those an easier swap (easier electronics and engine management?) than S52's? I guess then you have EWS stuff to deal with.

[permit]

S50s are far easier than S52s. And about $1k cheaper.

[KangamangusDriver]

1. I am extremely happy with the end result. The learning expierence, the satisfaction knowing that I swapped everything myself is an amazing feeling.
(A good friend and my fiance helped me out a lot and helped me drink beer)

2. I did the entire swap without a shops help. It did it in my driveway while making a great lawn ornament at the same time. (people would yell nice Mota Donny while driving by)

3. I had trouble with the ECU and rear end. I had trouble with a company selling me with the correct ECU. The rear diff had to be swapped out due to a way too tall gear ratio.

4. My swap went a little above my budget due to some final items.
The swap cost around $2800 in parts only. (I have many part connections)

5. I started with a M42. 140hp

6. I installed a 95' Vanos M50 192hp

7. My but dyno says holy shit! I can spin them in first with ease, well into second and part of third. The power is very smooth, highway acceleration and climbing hills is mindless and best of all I kept the 318IS badging on my trunklid. No one has any idea what lurks inside my car. I am very satisfied at the swap and am planning more mods as we speak.

8. Saved up more money and buid the motor from the block up for a high HP figure. But fresh out of college on a tight budget the end result is that I could not beat the car I have for the amount of money I've invested. A very happy and satisfied E30M50 owner.:p

[i3uller]

1. Are you happy with the engine swap end result? Mostly happy yes.
2. Did you do the swap yourself, with friends/family, or did a shop do it? I did it myself.
3. Are there any gotcha’s or things that do not work as expected? Brake booster was trashed, and a good amount of electrical stuff....like the oil level sensor I still have to do etc.
4. Did your swap go beyond estimated budget? Roughly how much did it cost (total)? Roughly 500 over. Total cost was 3k.
5. What model did you start with? (i.e. 318, 325, 325es, 325i, vert, M3, etc.) 325
6. What engine did you put in? M50
7. Do you have acceleration numbers on your post-swap vehicle? (timeslips, g-tech runs, etc.) Driving impressions before/after? It's definatly faster. Not a ridiculous change but very noticable.
8. Would you do it all over again? What would you do differently next time? I would go s50 for sure next time....and start off with a car that had plastic bumpers. Also I would make sure I had all my stuff before I started and plenty of time to do it. IE: Daily driver to drive while I do the swap.

[Addissimo]

there are a few people around who have swapped the s50b30 and b32 (mostly the b32). I think they're RHD drivers though.

You have to deal with EWS even when putting an s52 in, so doing it for the S50b32 isnt that big of a deal.

I think the main issue that will rise will be brake booster clearance. You'll either have to setup a remote booster, or a hydraulic booster. Other than that, your off scotch free.

I don't know where you live, but I'm pretty sure the s50b30/b32 doesnt pass smog in cali, so thats something to consider.

Swapping to obd-1 isn't that big of a deal, but like I said earlier, go stand-alone, you'll only have to swap your intake manifold, and you'll be alot faster in general. If you want to read up on the system i'm installing: www.sdsefi.com.

-Addis

[erik325i]

I don't know where you live, but I'm pretty sure the s50b30/b32 doesnt pass smog in cali, so thats something to consider.
-Addis

THe s50 should pass smog just as easily as the m50.
If you convert an OBD II motor to OBD I (s52), it won't pass smog though...
The car has to meet all of the requirements of the year of the motor. So, if you install a '97 motor, it has to have all of that OBD II stuff on and working in your car.

[permit]

My 318is with the M50 passed visual.

So I passed with the M50, then swapped in the M52. Don't have to worry about smog for a while now, and when I do, I'll take it to the same place that visually passed the M50.

[Addissimo]

you guys arent getting it. I'm talking about the euro spec s50b32, thats why i'm not just labeling it as an s52.

If he tries to put a non-obd2 engine in his e36 m3, he'll be fucked.

That is all.

-Addis

edit: your car should only have to pass the smog requirements for the year of the car. There is no real way to tell what engine you have in your car. Thats why its so popular to get a 95 e36 m3 and put an obd-1 s52 in there, you get the extra power without breaking the law.