some questions on Euro S50 into E30 M3

[Rajvosa]

hi guys,

I got an E30 M3 here in Australia. Love the shape and the car, but just want bit more power. Just purchased a damaged 1994 M3 (3.0 litre).

i am not looking into working the motor or doing anything special, just would like it to fit properly with least amount of $$ spent.
ive been reading quite a bit about whats needed to make it fit and it seems:
- E34 sump/tube+dipstick (is the tube and dipstick necessary?)
- E28 M5 mounts
- Does the E30 M3 need the E34 accelerator cable (im LHD).

im not sure about a few things:
- what radiator is needed? (E36 M3 will fit fine i believe...)
- BIG QUESTION: what brake booster? ive heard ppl talk about E21 (any specific model?) and E30 iX..... any advice on this would be fantastic!
- About the wiring, ive seen people sell adaptors to make wiring easy. just wondering if there is a Euro M3 engine to E30 M3 one available and is it worth doing it? (i will keep the S14 engine which will make its way back into the car someday).

im quite excited about the swap and thanks for any advice :)

[FredK]

You will definitely need the E34 sump and pickup tube at a minimum. The geometry of the E36 pickup tube is incompatible with the E34 sump.

It may be possible to bend your existing S50 dipstick to fit, but I'm not certain. I am also unsure about accelerator cable fitment.

An E36 M3 radiator will fit. You will have to use some rubber spacers in order to properly support the radiator, as the E36 and E30 M3 have a different way of suspending the radiator.

[Eric]

hi guys,

I got an E30 M3 here in Australia. Love the shape and the car, but just want bit more power. Just purchased a damaged 1994 M3 (3.0 litre).

i am not looking into working the motor or doing anything special, just would like it to fit properly with least amount of $$ spent.
ive been reading quite a bit about whats needed to make it fit and it seems:
- E34 sump/tube+dipstick (is the tube and dipstick necessary?)

Mistake I made with my euro S50 swap is using the E34 dipstick. The E36 M3 one has a y in the dipstick and uses the dipstick to drain the oil from the air/oil separator back into the oil pan.

- E28 M5 mounts

I used the AKG 24v swap engine & trans mounts. rock solid and fit perfect.

http://www.akgmotorsport.com/catalog/catalog.php?category=e30%20S50%2FM50%20Swap

- Does the E30 M3 need the E34 accelerator cable (im LHD).

I used a different cable mostly due to changing the pedals to a willwood setup, but I'm not sure what car the cable was from... sorry.

im not sure about a few things:
- what radiator is needed? (E36 M3 will fit fine i believe...)

I used the S54 Mcoupe 3 core radiator but my car is a track only so I wanted the most cooling I could get.

- BIG QUESTION: what brake booster? ive heard ppl talk about E21 (any specific model?) and E30 iX..... any advice on this would be fantastic!

I went with manual brakes, but Lee from massive brakes sells an adapter to run just the master cylinder (no booster). This will give you the best clearance and if you run a smaller master (21mm) the pedal shouldn't be too hard. I wish Lee had this out when I was doing my swap, it would have save a lot of time and money.

http://www.massivebrakes.com/brake-systems.php?p=brake-booster-delete

- About the wiring, ive seen people sell adaptors to make wiring easy. just wondering if there is a Euro M3 engine to E30 M3 one available and is it worth doing it? (i will keep the S14 engine which will make its way back into the car someday).

im quite excited about the swap and thanks for any advice :)[/QUOTE]

I used the AKG wiring harness. If you want to put the S14 back in later, then I'd use the adapter instead of hacking up your own wire harness.

Also know that you need to move the firewall a little bit on the exhaust side to clear the manifolds, and you need to notch the subframe to clear the exhaust as well. I'll grab some pictures of this the next time I'm poking around in the garage.

Here is my engine bay currently... trying to squeeze that gigantic carbon airbox in.

[Rajvosa]

You will definitely need the E34 sump and pickup tube at a minimum. The geometry of the E36 pickup tube is incompatible with the E34 sump.

It may be possible to bend your existing S50 dipstick to fit, but I'm not certain. I am also unsure about accelerator cable fitment.

An E36 M3 radiator will fit. You will have to use some rubber spacers in order to properly support the radiator, as the E36 and E30 M3 have a different way of suspending the radiator.

thanks Fred :)

[328ijunkie]

Harness is *mostly the same as any other E36 harness and as far as the swap is concerned it is the same as any other M/S5X swap; Sans your space requirements with whatever airbox youre running.

[Rajvosa]

Mistake I made with my euro S50 swap is using the E34 dipstick. The E36 M3 one has a y in the dipstick and uses the dipstick to drain the oil from the air/oil separator back into the oil pan.



I used the AKG 24v swap engine & trans mounts. rock solid and fit perfect.

http://www.akgmotorsport.com/catalog/catalog.php?category=e30%20S50%2FM50%20Swap

I used a different cable mostly due to changing the pedals to a willwood setup, but I'm not sure what car the cable was from... sorry.



I used the S54 Mcoupe 3 core radiator but my car is a track only so I wanted the most cooling I could get.



I went with manual brakes, but Lee from massive brakes sells an adapter to run just the master cylinder (no booster). This will give you the best clearance and if you run a smaller master (21mm) the pedal shouldn't be too hard. I wish Lee had this out when I was doing my swap, it would have save a lot of time and money.

http://www.massivebrakes.com/brake-systems.php?p=brake-booster-delete

im quite excited about the swap and thanks for any advice :)

I used the AKG wiring harness. If you want to put the S14 back in later, then I'd use the adapter instead of hacking up your own wire harness.

Also know that you need to move the firewall a little bit on the exhaust side to clear the manifolds, and you need to notch the subframe to clear the exhaust as well. I'll grab some pictures of this the next time I'm poking around in the garage.

Here is my engine bay currently... trying to squeeze that gigantic carbon airbox in.
[/quote]

Eric,
thanks very much for the reply. your engine bay looks like business! love the CF intake!! do you know who sells CF intake?

so you are saying to use E36 M3 dipstick tube?

so that wiring harness will definitely work for what i want? will all the wiring still be able to be hidden so engine bay is tidy or do i need to actually shorten the wiring for that to happen..

yeah i heard about the firewall, i might get an exhaust shop to just modify the 6th cyl tube/pipe..

great about the booster delete kit. are there any negatives with running that combined with stock E30 M3 brakes? would i need smaller master cyl not to have a hard pedal? off any particular model?

[Eric]

Eric,
thanks very much for the reply. your engine bay looks like business! love the CF intake!! do you know who sells CF intake?

My CF intake is from Geoffe Steele Racing in the UK. I bought it used. It hardly fits now, and absolutely would not fit if I had a heater core or a brake booster. the "hammon" style airbox's seam to fit the E30 engine bay nicely.

This guy is selling his I believe, http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...3&postcount=35

so you are saying to use E36 M3 dipstick tube?

I would try it. If you look at this picture of the motor in the E30, the stick is at the back. I think you can use the E34 pan and the stick will just be between the airbox and the MAF.



Here is my engine bay with the factory airbox and E34 disptick. I have to confess that a lot of the motor swap was done by a German master mechanic while I was deployed in Afghanistan. So some of the specifics I wasn't there for, but I've take the car apart a few times since then, so I'm back-tracing a lot of the stuff he did.



The most important thing about the E36 M3 dipstick is the added little "y" that allows the air/oil separator to drain back into the sump. Mine was incorrectly installed into the air plenum, so I had lots of oil in the intake track!

so that wiring harness will definitely work for what i want? will all the wiring still be able to be hidden so engine bay is tidy or do i need to actually shorten the wiring for that to happen..

My AKG harness worked for everything except something to do with starting.
Again, I didn't do most of the install unfortunately so I'm not sure about the specifics. I believe it was the fuel pump relay that wasn't kicking off. If you watch this video of us starting the motor for the first time, you can see the red jumper wire lying on the motor. This wire is still there, but now it's tucked away in the bowels of the wire harness.

yeah i heard about the firewall, i might get an exhaust shop to just modify the 6th cyl tube/pipe..

It's really not much that needs to be moved, and not noticeable once the motor is in.

great about the booster delete kit. are there any negatives with running that combined with stock E30 M3 brakes? would i need smaller master cyl not to have a hard pedal? off any particular model?

The pedal will just be stiff. Drive your car right now down a hill, when you get up some good speed, turn the car off and pump the brakes. That stiffness you feel without the motor running is what a boosterless system will feeel like all the time.

I believe the E30 M3 is a 23mm master cylinder stock while the E30 325 is a 21mm. There might even be a 19mm along the line somewhere (ask Lee). Moving to a smaller master will make the pedal move more for the same work applied, in effect giving you a slightly softer pedal feel.

After about 10 minutes driving the car for the first time, the rock hard pedal feel wasn't on my mind any longer. Your muscles learn pretty quickly.

[Rajvosa]

Eric,
once again thanks very much for the indepth replies!

all seems very clear but i still want to find out from people and reading their swaps if the AKG adapter will give me the chance to hide the harness as much as i can so it looks like a clean swap or is there just too many cables and would need shorteninge etc

once again thanks very much!

[328ijunkie]

^one of the reasons i modify harnesses. No bulky adapters :D

[Rajvosa]

^one of the reasons i modify harnesses. No bulky adapters :D

Seein that the S50 will be in there temporarily as the S14 will end up there eventually would you recommend I modify the harness or best to leave as is and use the adapters?

[328ijunkie]

Since it won't change the body harness at all I would just have the harness
Converted. Although if you don't plan to keep that motor/harness in that car the harness conversion will kinda be a waste as it won't necessarily P&P into another e30 and def won't plug back into an e36

[RoadHazard]

My Euro dipstick tube looks similar to the E34 one (straight with no branch-out) but the S50 oil pan has an oil drain nipple to accept oil drain from the intake. The Y-shape tube is on a different piece. Anyway, use the E34 dipstick otherwise you'll read the oil level wrong. The tube will need to be bent a little bit because the location on the S50 engine will make it interfere with the intake.

If yours is the same as mine, drill and tap the E34 oil pan and transfer the oil drain nipple from the E36 oil pan. Make sure the hole does not coincide with the oil level sensor if you plan to use one. If your S50 oil pan doesn't come with an oil drain nipple then you may need to modify an E34 tube into Y-shape to accept the oil drain. (You can't source the nipple separately as far as I know.) I found a thread where someone sells modified E34 tubes around here if that could make your life easier.

My car is RHD so I can't comment on the accelerator cable but I use a shorten E36 cable for my swap.

If you plan to use the M3 radiator, you can weld-in supporting metal brackets the same one used in facelift E30. The radiator then is a direct fit. You need two of the same plastic feet from the E30 but I can't remember the left or the right ones.

328ijunkie said it well about the harness.

[Rajvosa]

Thanks guys! really excited about getting the information and hopefully starting the conversion sooner rather than later!

ps what exhaust are you running Roadhazard?

If i use the AKG wiring adapter, will i still be able to hide the harness well, or is there just too much of the wiring and will look messy?

[328ijunkie]

^As i mentioned, adapters are extremely bulky but with the right amount of work anything can look clean. Get some M3 harness covers.

[RoadHazard]

I reuse the stock E36 M3 mid and rear silencer because I want a quiet system. The rest of the exhaust is custom-made.