Frankenstein Time; 97 2.8 + 92 2.5

[hugh jass]

No.

An off the shelf chip is the best option BY FAR. Call Active Autowerke or Turner Motorsports, one of them will probably have what you need.

please explain to me how an off the shelf chip is better than one burned specifically for a car with a certain engine configuration where all of the engine management parameters can be fine tuned.

[SchnellerVert]

Because AA and TMS have done multiple differant configs of these engines. If you call and speak with them I'm sure they will mention what differant configs they have created.

I bought a M50b25tu chip that's configed with a EU HFM and S50 cams and S52 headers. One day I'll get around to installing this config into my recently acquired Eta.

[hugh jass]

Because AA and TMS have done multiple differant configs of these engines. If you call and speak with them I'm sure they will mention what differant configs they have created.

I bought a M50b25tu chip that's configed with a EU HFM and S50 cams and S52 headers. One day I'll get around to installing this config into my recently acquired Eta.

regardless, i still don't see how an off the shelf chip can possibly be better than a custom chip . as good as the tms or aa chips may be, i still think that a custom chip would be better because it is specifically for you car in your geographic region, altitude, etc. which is better a good off the rack suit, or a suit where a tailor measures your body and creates the suit for you?
i know blunt has an off the shelf tms chip for his twincam swap with schricks, euro hfm, etc and it runs super rich and he is down on power from where he should be.

[blunttech]

an off the shelf chip is a compromise of sorts. you cant beat a chip burned on site for that specific car with a tuner who knows more than a r3v poster
hows that carly???

[aeryk7]

Adjusted to taste = screwed up.

They have chips on the shelf for a lot of non-standard engine configurations. Active has one for S50 cams in an M50 for example.

Not all chips are created equal.

Last time i bought a chip that was tuned for my setup from AA it didnt werke porperly and i have talked to many other people that have had this problem with them.

[matt]

please explain to me how an off the shelf chip is better than one burned specifically for a car with a certain engine configuration where all of the engine management parameters can be fine tuned.

Because of who's doing the tuning.

I trust Jim Conforti or Mark D or whoever does Active's tuning a lot more than I'd trust myself or some dyno operator to tune my motor.

Plus the whole idea of a Unichip seems like a hackjob to me. Why not just tune the actual ECU? Wait... that's what I'm suggesting. :zzz:

[Stu]

BMW's 17.5# injectors came on 2.5 M50's all the way to 3.0's. A longer stroke bottomend with the same cams/similar compression won't make much a difference in the flow rate needed. Otherwise, why did BMW put the same ones on 190 and 240horse cars?

The adjustable FPR lets you put it whereever you'd like. Cruise around town on low (less than stock) fuel pressure and get nice gas mileage (my 3.0 gets 31 on the highway)...and dumps 58psi at WFO, works out pretty well. 2.5, 2.7, 2.8, it doesn't matter. Run lean when cruising around town, dump fuel when you need it. My $.02

[E304life]

Because of who's doing the tuning.

I trust Jim Conforti or Mark D or whoever does Active's tuning a lot more than I'd trust myself or some dyno operator to tune my motor.

Plus the whole idea of a Unichip seems like a hackjob to me. Why not just tune the actual ECU? Wait... that's what I'm suggesting. :zzz:

A unichip gets the same results as tuning a ECU with the advantage of not having to have costly chip burning hardware. All you need is a software and a laptop to run it.

Unichips intercept signals like coolant temp and modify the signal, for example if it told the ECU the engine it was colder than it actualy was the ECU would add more fuel and advance the ignition timing. So you can get the same results as a chip its just a different way of doing it.

Whats with the snoozing smily carl didnt put me to sleep, in fact I was enlightend by his wealth of knowlege.

[matt]

A unichip gets the same results as tuning a ECU with the advantage of not having to have costly chip burning hardware. All you need is a software and a laptop to run it.

Unichips intercept signals like coolant temp and modify the signal, for example if it told the ECU the engine it was colder than it actualy was the ECU would add more fuel and advance the ignition timing. So you can get the same results as a chip its just a different way of doing it.

Whats with the snoozing smily carl didnt put me to sleep, in fact I was enlightend by his wealth of knowlege.

We're talking about atleast two different things here. You and others are talking about a unichip, which I think is a dumb idea, and doesn't even give you control over MOST engine parameters, where as some of the rest of us are talking about a custom burned chip for the motronic ECU, which is a much better idea.

Think about it... what will work better, sending wrong signals to a stock ECU to try to trick it into performing properly, or just changing its programming so that the proper signals get the right responses from the ECU.

How much do you think a chip burner costs? It's a hell of a lot less than a laptop, probably even less than a chip from Active or Turner. The expensive part of tuning is the labor of someone who knows what they're doing.

[gazellebeigem3]

As reccomended by stu, my plan was to run the ajustable FPR and a wideband O2 sensor. I just got the motor home yesterday and im almost done tearing it down. Then i have to do it all over again on the 2.5! Im assuming that i would use the 2.5 timing chains and tentioners?

[hugh jass]

Because of who's doing the tuning.

I trust Jim Conforti or Mark D or whoever does Active's tuning a lot more than I'd trust myself or some dyno operator to tune my motor.

Plus the whole idea of a Unichip seems like a hackjob to me. Why not just tune the actual ECU? Wait... that's what I'm suggesting. :zzz:

oookkkay. i'm done with this. i guess we'll just agree to disagree........

[E304life]

oookkkay. i'm done with this. i guess we'll just agree to disagree........

I with hugh jass

[hugh jass]

I with hugh jass

do you work at sears in minneapolis?

[techno550]

An adjustable FPR can only shift the fueling curve up or down. On an ECU like the 413, it'll learn around that as well.

Building an interesting motor with odd cams or odd cam timing or other things that are "different from some other stock motor" only change the VE characteristics of the engine. the *shape* of that curve will be different. This is essentially what the engine will want to know. You will need a certain A/F ratio at certain load points in the RPM band. Likewise, you can run a certain amount of timing given certain amounts of load in the RPM band. The stock ECU for something like an M50B25 has a very pronounced dip in the ignition timing where the VE peaks. Move the VE peak to some RPM where the ignition isn't so retarded and you'll get knock. Hence the need for tuning that suits the specific engine.

One issue with a piggyback is that it attempts to trick the ECU. For minor corrections this may be *relatively acceptable*, but for larger changes it will do bad things. You throw giant injectors on a motor and try to pull the fuel back with a piggyback, you'll be messing with the MAF signal. Relatively low MAF signal even at WOT will mean you never hit the WOT tables. The engine may still think it's at part throttle, just assuming something is wrong with the TPS calibration. I assume you can see how this could lead to bad things. Ignition timing is also something that would need correction, but the piggyback "corrects" this by messing with the crank position sensor value. Go too far off with this, and its no longer sync'd with the cam position sensor signal... bad. These changes don't just mess with ignition timing though, it also will advance/retard injector pulse timing.... again, bad.

Tune the ECU for the engine, and tune it right. adjustable FPR, piggybacks, etc... when used as a "fix" like this are just a

do it right, or leave it stock.

[FredK]

hey, it's "the abrasive guy"! ;) Thanks for weighing in techno550. So a custom tune is the way to go, eh? Makes sense, and it is fairly cost effective if you don't plan on radically changing the engine after you get a custom tune from a reputable Motronic tuner.