what could have caused this

[Mike B.]

Harrison Motorsports has a nice brake duct kit. Good price too. More air is very important with the increased speeds you are carrying into the braking zones.

[matt]

Harrison Motorsports ducts are great.

I would also suggest checking out www.factory3performance.com for their adapters. http://www.factory3performance.com/s...exd.asp?id=236

The owners of both of those businesses are great guys and are always out at the track with us... I use parts from both of them on my own car, and Harrison Motorsports does all my tech inspections. I really can't say enough nice things about both of them.

[1990m3]

I did have major fade problems. I think I boiled the fluid at one point. The pedal dropped halfway down, but I still had pressure - maybe from the rear circuit? I do not have break ducts, but I've never had problems before. I'm attributing the problem to the fact that I'm going much faster than before. I used to be able to hammer on the breaks and catch other cars in the break zones. This last event I had to hold back in breaking to keep the pedal feel under control. I think I've got PF97 pads in there right now. The only other thought is that maybe I've had the front engine pan/ground-effect off during previous events. This thing really covers up the wheel well and can easily restrict cooling. Has anyone punched holes through this thing to help break cooling? I'd hate to do another event and still have break problems, so I'm seriously considering doing a e36 break conversion (any info on this?) or going with the Brembro big-break kit.
;)

I asked because I think that for HPDE driving the stock brake are sufficient. In my s14 m3 I have no brake fade problems whatsoever, of course the car is a little lighter too. I was surprised however, that when I took my s50 318is to the track to find that my brakes were also very good. No fade, or anything and I didn't even have my ducts hooked up, but I do run without the splash guard so there is a little more air circulation down there...maybe. BTW - my 318is has e30 m3 5-lug and brakes on it. That 318 is fast, I'm converting it to track only this winter, m3 is going back to street duty :(

[static]

thanks for the brake duct links guys. (hmm, should i go for light aircraft aluminum or same priced stainless steel with funky looking welds and 2/3 of the duct/rotor coverage area blocked off? :crazy: )

also 1990m3, i don't understand your reasoning - s50e30 should be a street warrior with all the torque useful in the city. e30m3 would feel much more at home on a track AFAIK, and why put miles on the beauty of an s14 running it on street?

btw, how do these two cars compare on a technical track? can you really feel the lightness of the s14?

[matt]

I have the stainless ones from Factory 3... they work just the same.

But Factory3 has the adapters to the facelift brake ducts, which kick ass.

[1990m3]

thanks for the brake duct links guys. (hmm, should i go for light aircraft aluminum or same priced stainless steel with funky looking welds and 2/3 of the duct/rotor coverage area blocked off? :crazy: )

also 1990m3, i don't understand your reasoning - s50e30 should be a street warrior with all the torque useful in the city. e30m3 would feel much more at home on a track AFAIK, and why put miles on the beauty of an s14 running it on street?

btw, how do these two cars compare on a technical track? can you really feel the lightness of the s14?

Reasoning -- My m3 is worth $20k and my swapped car is worth $10k max. If I ball one up at the track the m3 is not so easily replaceable and I'll be out so much that you won't see me on the track for a long time. There are 100 clean e30 bodies I can put my parts in, there is only one AE34065 m3 and accident free and awesome.

Technical tracks, for example Blackhawk Farms? Ask Jason89i why he sold his swapped cars and bought a proper m3...I like to think it happened right after he took a ride in my car :)

The turn in on the m3 is not comparable to the swapped car, the m3 is much sharper. I have done back to back comparisons. Remember, my swapped car has m3 5-lug stuff on it. I've swapped over my track setup (jstock springs and shocks, ST sways) from one car to the other in a couple of hours and taken them both the same tracks with the same setups. The m3 is much faster in the corners given the same setups. I'll be taking my swapped car because it's more or less worthless to anyone else, regardless of how much work I put into it. The s50 is cheaper to rebuild than the s14 -- that's just my perspective, oh yeah, and as of 2 months ago I daily drive a low mileage 88 ix :)

[matt]

I have noticed that effect also. Thats why my next car is going to be a 4-cylinder.

[Rev Engineer]

The risk of balling up my e30 m3 has passed my mind as well. But, my e30 m3 is not really in that great of condition. It's been painted about 2 times and has had a little rust repaired. From about 10 feet away, it looks really clean. I've spent enough time underneath it to know different. My s14 is tucked away in the corner of my garage. After a few years with the s50, I'll probably do a light resto job on it and make it clean again and retire it from tack duty.

I've been pretty happy with the balance after doing a little tweaking. The car was perfectly balanced. 4-wheel driftable at the limit with perfectly even tire wear. Since the swap, I added an adjustable rear bar and dialed in about 2.5 degrees of camber up front. It's brought the balance back. Not quite the same as before, but I'm not fighting any understeer.

I'm starting to think that the hot track setup is an e36 m3. Great high-speed stability. Safer and more crash worthy compared to an e30. They're relatively cheap and there's no shortage of them. Tons of available mods and they're fast. At my last event, I got a humbling ride with an older guy in a near-stock e36 m3. His experience came through. He was just about able to keep up with some highly modified e36 m3's and a moded ltw e36 m3. The guys driving the modded e36 were good drivers, but it still went to show what a lot of talent and experience with a relatively quick stock car can do. Quicker lap times than what I can pull in my s50e30m3.

Fun stuff :up:

[1990m3]

I found my s50e30 to handle surprisingly well, but even with the same camber settings as my m3 the turn in is just not so sharp. I let another instructor who is very smooth and very experienced drive my m3 on track and he couldn't believe how sharp it was compared to his e36, and his car is very well setup and one of the fastest in our local region.

I'm sticking with my swapped car on the track because pulling on z4 m coupes, modded e46 m3's, and most non-gt3 porsche's is a great feeling and I just can't do it with the power of my 2.3l s14. I saw 7mph more in my swapped car on the same track on short straights! On longer tracks like road america (45 minutes from my house) it gets boring waiting for the m3 to get to the end of the straight. I still go fast, but it doesn't feel like it pulls very hard.

stay away from e36's in my opinion. think about this: a nicely swapped 318is with an s50 weighs about 2600lbs depending on your level of track preparations. What can you do to make an e36 weight that much? Lighter weight means your tires and brakes are more efficient (read last longer) and with lots of camber an e30 can be very sharp on a technical track.

VIVA e30!

[Shoomakan]

yes

yes

and i did mean to capatolieze (he he) all my i's, i think i forgot a few colons or semi's, maybee (he he) too many .....'s, thank goodness i dont (oops forgot the ') have any run on centenses (he he) or i might just as well start speaking italian or german, but i believe the internet is more for passing on information than writing essays and keeping grammmar. If i (oooh i got a cap'tl letter in there just for you) had to keep the sentance structures along with punctuation and speling, (he he) then i would just quit this whole internet thing.

oh yea, for all those techie physics guys.....i know its not centrifugal force that caused disc failure....its actually centripital force, but most understand the concepts of centrifugal better. (dang, forgot to use the shift key again. )

as long as you understand what im trying to say.......then its all good.

typically, these make noise when the fork is putting pressure on the bearing......clutch in. after hearing your experience, maybe i should put a disclaimer on that statement.

cheers, jason

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Good one.

[Rev Engineer]

Here are the pictures:

[Van Westervelt]

I called it. What did I win? lol

[Rev Engineer]

Ok. As expected, it was a major pain getting the trans out.

Some details on tranny removal:

I removed the exhaust + headers (can't quite get the downpipes out without taking the headers with them). I also took off the intake manifold - can't see how you can get at the starter bolts without doing this. Next, I drained and removed the radiator. I used an engine hoist to life the motor off the mounts which gave me lots of room to see and remove the bitch bolts.

So, a few of us guessed at the failure - a broken pressure plate strap which swung out and did a really nice job of machine the transmission. Now, I have to figure out what to do next.

First, is the trans salvageable? The cut it pretty long. Right now I'm thinking I can have this welded up - including extra welding at other areas where the metal might be thin. Maybe welding on the outside instead of inside. Any thoughts on this?? There are thin areas beyond the actual cut, but most of the circumference is a scrape instead of a cut.

Secondly, what clutch setup should I go with next?? The e30 325i flywheel and clutch look mint. Well, there really is only a couple thousand miles on them.. The easiest thing to do is to slap in a new pressure plate in and bolt it back together. But, could this happen again? I believe there are plenty of people using the e30 clutch setup without problems and I'm not sure the strapping on the e36 pressure plate is much beefier. Would a e36 lightweight flywheel and clutch be a better bet? Cost difference is going to be between $70 for a new pp or much more for a whole new e36 flywheel/clutch/pp.

The pp in there was a Sachs. Someone commented that the failure could happen from bad downshifts. I'm well versed in heal-toe, but I did miss a few from break fade. Also, during the track event I had a few grinds during upshifts (4th to 5th) and general upshifts seemed nothchy and not very smooth. Maybe the clutch was not fully releasing or the sychos are worn, and/or I was low on tranny fluid. My car was smoking a lot after I got off the track and I couldn't quite track down the leak (much of the underside of the car and cat was coated with oil). Maybe it was the trans losing fluid, but I was thinking more likely to be the dip stick grommet. Maybe the nothcy and hard upshifts caused the strap to break. It happened right after a 3-4 upshift.

I've got several things to consider there. Advise anyone? :shock:

[Rev Engineer]

Using the stock m20 clutch and pressure plate can and will break those bands easily. A few people up here have had the bands doubled up, even on the m5 setups to eliminate that weak point.

Found your previous post... So, you're saying this has happened before with the m20 clutch. Therefore, my best bet is to run far far away from the m20 setup? I'll gladly ante up for a e36 setup if there's some certainty around this not happening again.

I'm not sure you win anything here. :ohsnap: But, a grateful thanks on how to fix it up to make sure this won't happen again.

[Van Westervelt]

Different shops can put more bands on and double them up for you so its not an issue. er, less likely :)