standalone s54 engine and DSC retrofitting into a e30

[nando]

E30 sensors are VR, they generate their own voltage.

I just like to know how things work. I mean, swapping the entire ABS/DSC from an E46 to an E30 sort of already is reinventing the wheel. ;)

why is the swap expensive? the computers aren't really worth that much by themselves. time consuming?

[gobuffs]

Not sure why you try and reinvent the wheel. The E46 sensors mount with little difficulty and are the right sensors that work with the system. The swap isn't exactly cheap so why try the E30 sensors?

I know nobody using the E30 sensors with the E46 system. Plus I think I read somewhere that the E46 sensors run on 12v while the E30s are 5v. Could be wrong on that though.

[nando]

because they don't fit directly into E30 trailing arms, as you say yourself. but they do fit into the E30 front struts?

they look like a sort of hybrid sensor, reminds me of the M52 cam sensors. powered by 12v instead of 5v.

[gobuffs]

I am using E46 sensors. I said that once already. E30 M3 ABS ring.

The E46 sensors work. Why even consider using anything else?

[nando]

Yeah, it tells you what sensors you can use.

Can probably find it in the WDS.

[gobuffs]

No idea. Does it really matter?

[nando]

are MK60 sensors VR or hall?

[gobuffs]

I used the E46 M3 ones in the front and late Z3 3.0 sensors in the rear (I have M coupe trailing arms so they were plug and play). The rear on the E30 is the tricky part I hear and there is no plug and play sensor- there is some work that needs to get done to get it to fit (I haven't done it so I don't know what it is).

[Wh33lhop]

The steering angle sensor is required for any DSC functionality. The ABS will work fine without it, as you probably know, though you will need the DSC sensor for full ABS functionality.

Since you have a MK60 functioning in your car, what did you do for the wheel speed sensors?

[gobuffs]

What do you mean "standalone S54"? When I see standalone S54 and E30 I ASSuME you mean stand alone engine management. As long as the standalone computer you have can do traction control you can have it. DSC? Probably not.

I have an S54 in my E30 M3 with a Pectel that has traction control and an E46 M3 CSL MK60 ABS unit working in my car. I have not yet tuned the traction control.

Putting in an MSS4 and the Mk60 should be fairly plug and play IMO. Not sure the steering angle sensor is required (might make it work better but I think it will run without it- I could be wrong)- that would be the most difficult part of the install if required.

[1990m3]

Just get race logic traction control, $1200 well spent

[nando]

Whoops, I misspoke about the Hall effect sensors, they are mag type. From what I read on the subject a conversion needs to be performed and it's not entirely trivial. Complete heresay, but it's congruent with the previous link I posted ("With the introduction of the DSCIII MK60, active wheel speed sensors that operate with the magneto resistive effect are used for the first time on BMW vehicles").

I have been interested in a possible DSC reflash on my DD. Haven't gone anywhere with it though, and not sure what all you can do.

Is the ix ABS any better than RWD ABS?

but they are still 48 tooth sensor wheels. you could possibly use the E30 toothed wheels, or transplant the E46 ones over (if they're the same diameter). the last option would be to make new ones that match the materials/shape of the E46. You'd need the E46 sensors.

another option would be to use an adapter board that takes the E30 ABS sensor signals and outputs the signal that the DSC system wants (basically a VR to Hall conversion, fairly trivial, in fact you can buy a board that does this from Hoveringguy).

I know the M3 guys have used some of the CSL software, but I have no idea what you can do for a standard E46. I imagine it's like a DME where there are settings, maps and curves that could be "tuned" but I've never heard of anyone doing something like that.

Yes. :)

[ohthejosh]

Damn I wish I knew the stuff you guys know. Its like reading stuff in spanish lol. Nonetheless useful info for me to look up and all.

[Wh33lhop]

oh yeah, wheel speed sensors are just standard 48 tooth ABS sensors. even stock E30 ones might work.

Whoops, I misspoke about the Hall effect sensors, they are mag type. From what I read on the subject a conversion needs to be performed and it's not entirely trivial. Complete heresay, but it's congruent with the previous link I posted ("With the introduction of the DSCIII MK60, active wheel speed sensors that operate with the magneto resistive effect are used for the first time on BMW vehicles").

I have been interested in a possible DSC reflash on my DD. Haven't gone anywhere with it though, and not sure what all you can do.

Is the ix ABS any better than RWD ABS?

[nando]

Actually, I'm not sure it's SO insurmountable. I was talking to an E46 guy last week (cyberkaa, he knows his shit) and basically if you can put the E46 ABS pump in the E30 (pretty simple) the DSC is a standalone unit excepting the MSS54, wheel speed sensors which will need to be converted to E46/Hall effect, the "DSC sensor" (combined yaw and lateral acc sensor) and the LWS (steering angle sensor). The wheel speed sensors and LWS will be the main headaches here. If you figure them out and get everything in the car, hook it up and that's your retrofit. Worth it? I don't know. Would be interesting though.

With all the of the flak that it catches, E46 DSC is actually pretty cool. It battles understeer and helps maintain yaw by pulsing the outside brakes while braking mid-corner. Don't quote me on this but IIRC either the M3 or the CSL unit is also less intrusive performance-wise. Moreover, E30 ABS sucks. E46 ABS does not. So it's not entirely without merit.

Edit: nando has a point that it may not be as effective on an E30. But I think it would still do its job.

For a bit of technical info: http://www.shipkiller.com/Dynamic_St...trol_MK60.html

oh yeah, wheel speed sensors are just standard 48 tooth ABS sensors. even stock E30 ones might work.

it would be interesting to look into re-coding the DSC system yourself, although you'd be pretty much on your own there.