S54 programing

[nrubenstein]

Correct, the runner velocity stacks are slightly different, the air box does flow better, but argument is "how much better", does it justify spending 5k on one. And CSL is actualy not alpha N it is manifold apsolute sensor system.
It is proven that CSL airbox alone brings only 1hp to the table and the cost is as much as good complete S54 engine. Ram air is minimal because it has no air scoop to collect air, very little pressure will be developed at 3 inch opening on the bumper.

CSL has the same header as stock Euro M3 if I am not mistaken.

BMW spends crazy money on stupid stuff that never makes it to market, they probably made that box when prototyping S54 engine so it only costs them to make one. not that they broke a bank over it

I think that every single person in this thread agrees that it's a lot of money and that for most uses, the benefit is much more audible than felt. That said, once you hear a carbon airbox, it's very hard not to want one. The more aggressive the cams, the better the sound. (Ever hear Chuck Stickley's S54 in person? Quite possibly the best noise I've ever heard an engine make.)

[exdos]

WRONG!

The volume of the airbox and the runner design are considerably different then the OEM airbox.

I'll have to do some digging, but if I could find some data logging info on CFMs at speed between the 2 set-ups, then you would see the real world benefits of the CSL set-up.

Do you know the internal volume of the CSL airbox? Any luck finding the results of the datalogging?

[nando]

it's blended speed density alpha-N. it's not pure alpha-N.

[DesertBMW]

WRONG!

The volume of the airbox and the runner design are considerably different then the OEM airbox. The CSL intake is not just a pretty, over priced carbon fiber piece in the engine bay that sounds good.

Do you really think BMW would've spent the time, resources and energy they did in creating the CSL package, if each part didn't benefit the car as a whole?

The CSL intake plenum has the ability to flow higher CFMs then the OEM airbox, as do the higher flowing, better designed CSL headers and exhaust. The intake and exhaust were engineered to work directly with the custom profile camshafts. Finally the Alpha-N software, and faster MSS54HP DME.

Also, what most people tend to forget, that the CSL intake set-up, especially when air is being drawn from the bumper opening, has the ability to suck in MUCH more air at speed due to the "ram-air effect" vs the factory configuration. This won't be seen on a dyno, where the air speed is constant, and the entire engineering behind the CSL set-up won't show it's true colors. I'll have to do some digging, but if I could find some data logging info on CFMs at speed between the 2 set-ups, then you would see the real world benefits of the CSL set-up.

Correct, the runner velocity stacks are slightly different, the air box does flow better, but argument is "how much better", does it justify spending 5k on one. And CSL is actualy not alpha N it is manifold apsolute sensor system.
It is proven that CSL airbox alone brings only 1hp to the table and the cost is as much as good complete S54 engine. Ram air is minimal because it has no air scoop to collect air, very little pressure will be developed at 3 inch opening on the bumper.

CSL has the same header as stock Euro M3 if I am not mistaken.

BMW spends crazy money on stupid stuff that never makes it to market, they probably made that box when prototyping S54 engine so it only costs them to make one. not that they broke a bank over it

[e30polak]

CSL box still gets reduced down to 3" inch for the tube that sucks air from the front bumper cover then it has 2" (safety drain tube) if in case something gets stuck on the front bumper openening and for water drain. Only benefit of the CSL box is that it has much bigger filter element.

WRONG!

The volume of the airbox and the runner design are considerably different then the OEM airbox. The CSL intake is not just a pretty, over priced carbon fiber piece in the engine bay that sounds good.

Do you really think BMW would've spent the time, resources and energy they did in creating the CSL package, if each part didn't benefit the car as a whole?

The CSL intake plenum has the ability to flow higher CFMs then the OEM airbox, as do the higher flowing, better designed CSL headers and exhaust. The intake and exhaust were engineered to work directly with the custom profile camshafts. Finally the Alpha-N software, and faster MSS54HP DME.

Also, what most people tend to forget, that the CSL intake set-up, especially when air is being drawn from the bumper opening, has the ability to suck in MUCH more air at speed due to the "ram-air effect" vs the factory configuration. This won't be seen on a dyno, where the air speed is constant, and the entire engineering behind the CSL set-up won't show it's true colors. I'll have to do some digging, but if I could find some data logging info on CFMs at speed between the 2 set-ups, then you would see the real world benefits of the CSL set-up.

[nando]

yeah, you're wrong. it also has a lot more internal volume than the regular airbox. there's more to an airbox than the size of the opening.

hemholtz resonance tuning. google. you. go. :D

[DesertBMW]

And you're totally right on the MAF not working on a CSL box because of the massive opening. It was also proven that the Delage air box that retained a 3.5" opening because it used a MAF sensor and screen, added ZERO power over a proper air intake and the factory plenum.

CSL box still gets reduced down to 3" inch for the tube that sucks air from the front bumper cover then it has 2" (safety drain tube) if in case something gets stuck on the front bumper openening and for water drain. Only benefit of the CSL box is that it has much bigger filter element.

[e30polak]

I should also add, it's not possible to make a MAF that functions well with an intake opening as large as the one on the CSL. If it were better BMW would have used it.

MAF = emissions equipment, IMO :p

Sorry I got mixed up with the flap that a local vendor was creating to sync with the throttles. My mistake it acts as a muffler for the intake.

And you're totally right on the MAF not working on a CSL box because of the massive opening. It was also proven that the Delage air box that retained a 3.5" opening because it used a MAF sensor and screen, added ZERO power over a proper air intake and the factory plenum.

[nando]

I should also add, it's not possible to make a MAF that functions well with an intake opening as large as the one on the CSL. If it were better BMW would have used it.

MAF = emissions equipment, IMO :p

[thedean]

Its a noise flap - even the bmw internal codes say so. It performs no engine function.

+1 noise baffle.

[Farbin Kaiber]

^Also what I've read. It's like the intake version of the exhaust flap setups, make performance cars more pedestrian friendly. We can't have an unsuspecting CSL owner being held liable for someone jumping off the curb at a crosswalk when he plays footsie with the skinny pedal, can we?

[nando]

Its a noise flap - even the bmw internal codes say so. It performs no engine function.

[e30polak]

People are mistaken, they think the CSL gets more power because of the different intake manifold(shield/guide), but that is wrong asumption. It still gets reduced down to 3.5" inch at the end of the manifold.
That CSL intake box only makes 1hp more when compared to stock intake that is run without filter element. this was tested on a dyno.

The CSL airbox does make more power that is only because of the bigger filter element, it makes 9hp more when compared to stock intake box with small filter element that is same size sense 1992 325i filter.

Thus I come to conclusion that one could make the same or almost the same power with stock intake plenum using CSL DME(with MAP sensor installed) and get rid of MAF and run straight pipe from stock elbow down under the left fog light, and put big cone filter on it

Most of the power gain comes directly from the CSL DME where most of the emission and fuel economy is detuned for the benefit of making more power out of the engine. CSL cams have longer duration but less lift.

The MAF on the s54 is only a restriction when it comes to installing hotter cams. The CSL car makes the power from numerous factors, not just the DME...

Better flowing headers (most of the power is gained here)
Better flowing exhaust
Higher degree cams
Larger intake plenum
Custom Alpha-N tuning

All this being said, good tuners will make a considerable amount of power with the CSL airbox vs. the factory intake (even when the maf is removed and they're custom tuned with Alpha-N). The original CSL intake has a restrictor at the front, with a flap that almost acts as a muffler for the airbox. If you remove the restrictor and flap, there are bigger gains with proper tuning. Evolve and Epic Motorsports have both show nice gains with the CSL intake, on the factory DME.

[nando]

who cares about the HP.. the sound alone..

[DesertBMW]

It's a blended speed-density/ alpha-n. There is a vac distribution manifold to help get a good reading, and above a certain load it is pure alpha-n (70% or so).

Mafs cost more, are subject to turbulence, dirt, electrical failure, and are more restrictive. Meh :p

People are mistaken, they think the CSL gets more power because of the different intake manifold(shield/guide), but that is wrong asumption. It still gets reduced down to 3.5" inch at the end of the manifold.
That CSL intake box only makes 1hp more when compared to stock intake that is run without filter element. this was tested on a dyno.

The CSL airbox does make more power that is only because of the bigger filter element, it makes 9hp more when compared to stock intake box with small filter element that is same size sense 1992 325i filter.

Thus I come to conclusion that one could make the same or almost the same power with stock intake plenum using CSL DME(with MAP sensor installed) and get rid of MAF and run straight pipe from stock elbow down under the left fog light, and put big cone filter on it

Most of the power gain comes directly from the CSL DME where most of the emission and fuel economy is detuned for the benefit of making more power out of the engine. CSL cams have longer duration but less lift.