CARB Legal E30 N51B30 Swap

[Yo.goob]

After a summer's worth of researching wiring diagrams and networking with the other N52 swap folk on this forum, I am finally jumping into the next hurdle of finishing the oil pan that projectJTv4 had been so kind to let me see in person. It seems as if we are the only two people in the greater Los Angeles area that are taking this on so if anyone else is out here and willing to collaborate, let us know!




Also did me a massive favor of lending the welding jig for the welder to finish it all within a week's time and get on to the rest of the challenges of getting the motor turned over and running.





The only other major update is that the donor E90's dashboard is coming out to do a proper chassis wiring integration into the E30, which includes the CAS, EWS, FRM, and the other incredibly complicated BUS systems to make the CA emissions compliant ECU happy.



More updates to follow now that the semester has started.

[Yo.goob]

Welp. Today confirms that the easiest and only legal way to accomplish this swap is to make the E30 into an E90 and bring along quite literally everything I can in order to make the DME and even non-essential parts compliant to the swap. This just bumped the difficulty of the swap to an 11 but by giving me only one option, it gives me some easier guidelines to engineer my way out of the problem. Luckily, I still have full access to my donor car and all the parts necessary to do just that, but it will be quite a while until both cars are stripped down to the chassis to make room for all the necessary space and electrical accommodations to this now 40-year-old chassis.

Dashboard on the E90 is coming apart nicely and taking note of all the wiring + other goodies to transfer over into the old Frankenstein's monster of an E30.

More to come soon

[DesertBMW]

From what I am gathering so far, it might be easiest to quite literally Frankenstein the entirety of the E90 wiring harness including the CAN systems into the E30 and snip out the non-essentials to keep it within the CA CALID/CVN compliance since we can't reprogram the ECU to be anything other than the MSV-80.1 from the donor 328i I salvaged. Daunting and tedious.

I did that with my N55 to E36 swap. I wanted to swap into E30 but gave up because of the oil pan issue. I did all of this back in 2013. then sold the car, then the guy sold the car to someone else, and it is still out these running fine 11 years later with the same swap. My thinking at the time was that N55 will get very cheap in the future because it is mass produced engine, but I was wrong, N55 is selling for a lot of money, because people keep blowing them up and demand is high. I made a swap video about it, in fact a whole movie

240530 YouTube GO 3S Creative 正常开 wzl 横 en

[Yo.goob]

The MSV-70 is the software that they have best figured out to reintegrate into the E30 chassis without making the ECU throw out a bunch of codes and making it friendly with the different wiring one can use to make it cleaner/easier (Z3 IVM, X3 wiring loom etc,). Pretty sure I saw someone on this thread post about a N52N plug-and-play wiring harness to add to the simplicity of the swap. They also have the added benefit of not needing most of the emissions software or restrictions on modding the intake, exhaust, cooling, air conditioning, etc.,
I believe Nando, Hubcapboy, and HoverinGuy have the wiring and fuse diagrams figured out to use the MSV-70 ECU into the E30 fuse panel and everything else basically either uses parts bin stuff from the E46/Z3/X3 or can be custom made to fit the chassis. Whatever your preference or budget allows.

As far as testing the MSV-80 or 80.1 for the N51, that hasn't been sorted which is what ProjectJTv4 and I are in the process of solving and learning to keep it all CARB legal which is a huge pain, but once that hurdle is crossed, the floodgates open for the rest of the CA enthusiasts to legally swap in a modern-lightweight straight six back into an equally light E30! Hell of a journey but I know we will get there eventually, even if it kills me haha.

From what I am gathering so far, it might be easiest to quite literally Frankenstein the entirety of the E90 wiring harness including the CAN systems into the E30 and snip out the non-essentials to keep it within the CA CALID/CVN compliance since we can't reprogram the ECU to be anything other than the MSV-80.1 from the donor 328i I salvaged. Daunting and tedious.

[DesertBMW]

Yeah, that's a good question. I know that the MSV-80 hardware is different enough that the MSV-70 solution can't just be ported over.

so you are saying that you are limited to only one year production model and that is 2006?

[hoveringuy]

So after all this time one still has to use MSV70? Hasn't the MSV80 been figured out to be used without CAS?

Yeah, that's a good question. I know that the MSV-80 hardware is different enough that the MSV-70 solution can't just be ported over.

[DesertBMW]

The N52 will get easier with each one. I think most of the figurin' out is done.
...)

So after all this time one still has to use MSV70? Hasn't the MSV80 been figured out to be used without CAS?

[hoveringuy]

Other than having to make an oil pan, the swap is the same amount of effort. Nothing wrong with either engine but the aluminum m5x engines have some known issues, oil pump & head threads. The n52 is not perfect either, non keyed crank hub, cam bearing ledges, but every engine is a 3.0 & the newest ones are only 12 years old compared to 16. The swap also opens up factory turbo engines as the n54/5 share designs so it's great for the future of e30 modding

I remember when M50 swaps first became a "thing" and how difficult they were! The angled G260, the heater core connection, the C101, inflated OBC, CAB exhaust interference, etc.

The N52 will get easier with each one. I think most of the figurin' out is done.

and that reminds me... I will commit the little alternator light trigger that I've had working nicely in prototype form to a board soon. (N52 has a CAN controlled alternator so it doesn' have the second set of field windings to trigger our "ALT" light...)

[Caperix]

Other than having to make an oil pan, the swap is the same amount of effort. Nothing wrong with either engine but the aluminum m5x engines have some known issues, oil pump & head threads. The n52 is not perfect either, non keyed crank hub, cam bearing ledges, but every engine is a 3.0 & the newest ones are only 12 years old compared to 16. The swap also opens up factory turbo engines as the n54/5 share designs so it's great for the future of e30 modding

[DesertBMW]

I've had both M54 (two...) and now N52. I was pretty satisfied with the M54 but it took a lot of work to get 245whp (Schrick cams, headers, porting, M50 intake) and I was always waiting for the oil pump to fail from harmonics. It was definitely easier but I wouldn't wish the E34 pan on anyone, either.
Even with 245whp, it was pretty weak at the bottom without DISA and I had to run Megasquirt to make that all work.

The N52 is definitely a more difficult swap, but the VANOS is far superior, it doesn't leak nearly as much, is generally more refined and with nothing more than headers makes 245 on a completely stock motor. I presently have the dual-DISA intake which has lots of low-end torque but starts to run out of steam by 6800, whereas the n54 intake was still pulling through 7500. The M54 intake ports looked like rough-cast crud and the exhaust ports were horrible. N52 is fully CNC machined and just looks like a jewel. Plus bedplate crank, light-weight and the magnesium block is SO smooth! (magnesium is fantastic at damping)

We can all agree that finding a decent M50/M52/S50/S52 is pretty tough these days and even M54's are going on 20 years old. N52's are still new enough that they're falling out of the dismantling yards with decent mileage for pretty cheap.

Good M54B30 is dirt cheap now. Idea is to buy the whole car, E46 are out there selling for $800 on Facebook marketplace all good and running with other issues that make the car very cheap. I bought 2004 330ci manual for $800 and I drove it home, reason why it I got it for cheap is because convertible top got torn and interior was a mess, no one wanted it. So I got the M54B30 with ZF transmission and all the parts that I would need then I sell rest of the car in scrap for $400 and I have a good running M54 with good known transmission. You just can't beat that. And M54 as long as it is not overheated it is good. Then swap is easy, everything just bolts on. I am running my E30 with E34 oil pan for 14 years now and no issues, My E30 is on stock springs.
Then I know N52 is a great engine and you can buy 2007-2009 E90 for cheap also, but the amount of fab work that you have to do for a swap and then compare that with benefit...

[hoveringuy]

I don't see N52 as a good swap at all. It is not easy, it is not cheap, barely gives more power than M54b30 and the swap is way more complicated.

I've had both M54 (two...) and now N52. I was pretty satisfied with the M54 but it took a lot of work to get 245whp (Schrick cams, headers, porting, M50 intake) and I was always waiting for the oil pump to fail from harmonics. It was definitely easier but I wouldn't wish the E34 pan on anyone, either.
Even with 245whp, it was pretty weak at the bottom without DISA and I had to run Megasquirt to make that all work.

The N52 is definitely a more difficult swap, but the VANOS is far superior, it doesn't leak nearly as much, is generally more refined and with nothing more than headers makes 245 on a completely stock motor. I presently have the dual-DISA intake which has lots of low-end torque but starts to run out of steam by 6800, whereas the n54 intake was still pulling through 7500. The M54 intake ports looked like rough-cast crud and the exhaust ports were horrible. N52 is fully CNC machined and just looks like a jewel. Plus bedplate crank, light-weight and the magnesium block is SO smooth! (magnesium is fantastic at damping)

We can all agree that finding a decent M50/M52/S50/S52 is pretty tough these days and even M54's are going on 20 years old. N52's are still new enough that they're falling out of the dismantling yards with decent mileage for pretty cheap.

CARB legal is challenging, for sure.

[Yo.goob]

100% without a doubt on the WTF side of things, but still doable albeit with a lot of creative thinking and knowing both the E90 & E30 chassis inside and out.

CA officials definitely don't like this swap since they see the complexity from miles away and are worried about the K+DCAN wiring integration along with the modules, but a good amount of that stuff isn't necessary since it isn't emissions related.
The N51 SULEV tank definitely sucks a bit since there is a whole lot tucked away and there aren't any schematics that describe what's going on. However, the engine change guidelines state that the EVAP equipment can remain in the recipient vehicle configuration (E30 EVAP) as long as the OBD system can monitor what's going on with the fueling system.





An absolute mess of EVAP and emissions equipment going on in there.

(Thank Stephen Cox on YouTube for getting us this wonderful video on the SULEV fuel tank! This is the only reference I could find on what the heck is going on in there.)

Really confusing to figure out the best way to reintegrate it all but we can get back to that in due time.

[roguetoaster]

Keep going OP, this certainly registers a bit on the WTF side of the swap spectrum, but that side of the scale also produces all manner of sly grin inducing weirdness.

I think it'll be very interesting to see how CA views some aspects of the swap, such as the allegedly forever sealed fuel system, and whatever other components are or are not considered necessary emissions components for this swap.

[Yo.goob]

People have swapped just about everything into the E30 chassis, cost-prohibitive or otherwise so I will respect your opinion that this isn't something you would do.
If you haven't already looked at the rest of this thread, there are a good amount of successful N52 swaps and seems like they are happy with their decisions to transplant that motor into their E30.

[DesertBMW]

I don't see N52 as a good swap at all. It is not easy, it is not cheap, barely gives more power than M54b30 and the swap is way more complicated.