Steering Rack swap?

[nando]

I did consider that too. A steering quickener would double the response (but also the effort). But honestly, I'm not interested much in electric steering. that sounds like a bunch of extra weight, complication, and taking up valuable space.

[madman23]

Ok. So in speaking to the guys about the electric rack mod they said their rack cannot be customized to fit our spacing. We can go the rout of doing the electric swap which will allow you to change the steering feel and behing that put a steering quickener. Does hat sound like a good option to anyone?

[nando]

That doesn't actually reduce any force feedback.

I @$$ume that it's designed to transmit steering torque unassisted for long periods of time. I've never heard of one break.

No, but it reduces how responsive the steering is. Because when you turn the wheel, it doesn't immediately move the rack - the torsion bar has to twist first, up to whatever torque value it's designed for. I wasn't trying to say it would break..

Which is why, if you read that ZHP rack thread I posted above - some racks have better/more responsive feel than others, even if the ratio is identical. On the E90, the steering is really heavy, but that also gives it a lot of feel and responsiveness. The E30's steering in comparison is super light and mushy. I'm certain the design of the torsion bar on the E30 steering rack is the reason, and why it really doesn't work very well as a 'manual rack'.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Hello everyone. I spoke to EPAS and they are more than excited to work with us. We briefly discussed doing a custom kit that would go on the column but then they said we may be able to do a fully custom manual rack with electric power assist. I will update everyone when I speak to them again next week. Please let me know if either of these options seems interesting.

Be careful with that... there's VERY little room in the engine bay and around the rack to package the EPAS motor. That's why I was interested in their column mounted units.

[The Dark Side of Will]

you would still have the torsion bar in the input shaft which twists as you steer - that also sucks. :)

That doesn't actually reduce any force feedback.

I @$$ume that it's designed to transmit steering torque unassisted for long periods of time. I've never heard of one break.

[Nisse Järnet]

The ones I checked with here in Sweden didn't mention anything about removing the power steering, but it was pretty expensive ��

[nomansland92]

Interested to see where this goes, not sure if I'd like manual steering but I think my ps pump is on it's way out soooo

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[madman23]

Hello everyone. I spoke to EPAS and they are more than excited to work with us. We briefly discussed doing a custom kit that would go on the column but then they said we may be able to do a fully custom manual rack with electric power assist. I will update everyone when I speak to them again next week. Please let me know if either of these options seems interesting.

[nando]

you would still have the torsion bar in the input shaft which twists as you steer - that also sucks. :)

[The Dark Side of Will]

I need to get one of the rusted bolts off this rack and then I will look into mailing it to them. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it's the way to go. I never thought too much about why a non-powered rack would be different than a powered one, but now I do not think that running an ix rack without PS (and I know it sucks, I agree with you guys on that lol) is the same as what this would give you.

Sending the rack to them will only give me an idea of the total cost though. Hopefully under $250 each, which is really pretty cheap. Then we need to find seal kits but I don't think that should be so hard - maybe Quaife can assist.

If you just take the belt off the pump, then you're using arm power to push hydraulic fluid through the system as you steer. That sucks.

If the PS rack is empty, you still have seal drag on the hydraulic cylinder, which doesn't suck as much.

A true conversion to manual steering would completely disassemble the rack and leave out the hydraulic seals when reassembling.

Since that's what we'd have to do to install the Quaife rack, it would be easy.

Quaife may not want to get into trying to tune the spool valve cracking torque to everyone's whims and desires.

[nando]

I need to get one of the rusted bolts off this rack and then I will look into mailing it to them. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it's the way to go. I never thought too much about why a non-powered rack would be different than a powered one, but now I do not think that running an ix rack without PS (and I know it sucks, I agree with you guys on that lol) is the same as what this would give you.

Sending the rack to them will only give me an idea of the total cost though. Hopefully under $250 each, which is really pretty cheap. Then we need to find seal kits but I don't think that should be so hard - maybe Quaife can assist.

[EyExR]

Ok. You guys have changed my mind. Count me in! Totally worth a shot.

[The Dark Side of Will]

https://epasperformance.com/

Their E30 M3 kit attaches to the bottom of any E30 steering column.

Also, for the record, manual steering is much better than disconnected power steering.

Can't grind a fine enough surface finish on the rack? I dunno why that would hold up a company like Quaife, though.

For anyone who hasn't looked, that's an ELECTRIC power steering kit that attaches to the steering column inside the firewall. That would be a perfect combo to use with a faster manual steering rack.

[nando]

This is probably going to sound stupid to the gurus but why can't we do what adam.nonis did to fit his rack? He made a custom cross member to fit the rack.

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=409466&page=39

This is beyond me. But maybe we could throw the idea his way and when he is done with his project he could try making something. It might be a while but most of us have been waiting so long already so what is a little more waiting?

I am sure if he can make something that will work then he will build a similar setup. And then he could build more. And we could pay a forum member rather than some out side company.

Of course you could. But that's beside the point. I don't have time or energy to build a whole subframe, as I'm guessing many others do not - feel free to ask Adam, but I'm guessing he has a lot of projects already. Plus it would probably have to be steel, and add even more weight to the front of the car.

As far as why Quaife will not do PS, well I never really looked into it before - but basically a non-power rack has a solid input shaft. A PS rack has an input shaft with a torsion bar and a rotary of valve that controls the flow of fluid through the rack (left or right). When you turn the wheel the torsion bar twists slightly allowing the flow to move one way or another.

Which makes me think, a non-PS rack with the PS disconnected is definitely not the same at all, in terms of feel or effort, as a rack made without PS in the first place (solid input shaft).

There are pics in this thread which are helpful to see why:

https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=954523

I bet E30s have really 'thin' torsion bars - it gives them easy steering, but the feel is poor compared to 'newer' BMWs (like the 330i ZHP and RWD E90's). It's not just the slow ratio that is annoying.

People who "convert" a PS rack to non-PS by capping off the lines are missing this difference. The torsion bar is still twisting with input making the steering mushier than it needs to be.

There are still options - possibly fitting the rack/pinion from another model inside the ix housing (except the input shaft is likely to not fit). Fitting a RWD rack either by moving the mount tabs to the opposite side or making some sort of bracket/modified subframe.

Actually thinking about it a whole new subframe doesn't really make sense anyway, because the only problem with a non-ix rack fitting (aside from perhaps less oil pan clearance which can't be helped) is that the mount tabs on the rack are on the wrong side, it's not that the racks do not fit on the subframe.

To me the simplest solution is the most appealing - the Quaife rack would fit like stock without messing with anything else. But I understand not wanting to spend money on something when nobody knows what it will be like.

[rzerob]

This is probably going to sound stupid to the gurus but why can't we do what adam.nonis did to fit his rack? He made a custom cross member to fit the rack.

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=409466&page=39

This is beyond me. But maybe we could throw the idea his way and when he is done with his project he could try making something. It might be a while but most of us have been waiting so long already so what is a little more waiting?

I am sure if he can make something that will work then he will build a similar setup. And then he could build more. And we could pay a forum member rather than some out side company.