iX stroker turbo Questions

[aaron325ix]

I am currently doing a lot of research on the stroker I want to build for my iX. I plan on building something similar to nando's 2.8, so nando feel free to chime in here. I will be back in Colorado at about 8k ft. so basically I want my stroker to be able to perform like it would at sea level, be able to push/pass trucks and cars up hill on the highway over high mountain passes without a lot of down shifting. I also want reliability to be a must. So I am wondering if a mild boost would be a good idea for what I want. I want to do it right, no cheap set ups. Is an intercooler necessary, considering temps are never really that high up there? Would the stroker alone be enough? The key here is reliablity. Any ideas on this? Thanks.

[Wishno87]

dont have any advice but a turbo IX would be awesome!!

[turbo325i]

My buddy and I are turboing his ix. Its going to be sick. You should turbo yours as well. The boost is what will easily make up for the loss of power due to elevation. :)

As far as reliability I have had my car turbo'd for over 10,000 miles and it gets 20mpg around town and 24mpg highway. I am more than satisfied with it, and I havent even installed my standalone ecm yet:)

[nando]

if you want reliability from a turbo:

a) overbuild the engine - headstuds, welded coolant channels, forged pistons, etc. the only things different on our engines are the block, oil pump and intermediate shaft. so you can copy what other turbo people are doing.
b) use an intercooler. you may be able to get away without one, but even an inexpensive one is better than nothing. the outside temp might be low, but under pressure air temps rise significantly.
c) tuning - megasquirt, vems, whatever. it's probably worth getting some dyno time if you're going to turbo the car. AFR is pretty easy to dial in (especially at WOT) but timing is impossible to street tune, and the rest of the map takes a lot of time/effort.

if you had ~200whp, you'd be able to do what you want - i'm not close to that, and 5th gear feels like 4th on the freeway. The only time I downshift is for 3rd gear passing from ~45-85mph, which is a blast :)

[aaron325ix]

if you want reliability from a turbo:

a) overbuild the engine - headstuds, welded coolant channels, forged pistons, etc. the only things different on our engines are the block, oil pump and intermediate shaft. so you can copy what other turbo people are doing.
b) use an intercooler. you may be able to get away without one, but even an inexpensive one is better than nothing. the outside temp might be low, but under pressure air temps rise significantly.
c) tuning - megasquirt, vems, whatever. it's probably worth getting some dyno time if you're going to turbo the car. AFR is pretty easy to dial in (especially at WOT) but timing is impossible to street tune, and the rest of the map takes a lot of time/effort.

if you had ~200whp, you'd be able to do what you want - i'm not close to that, and 5th gear feels like 4th on the freeway. The only time I downshift is for 3rd gear passing from ~45-85mph, which is a blast :)

To get ~200whp would I have to go the route of the 3.2 motor like youve mentioned before? If so would that be a good reliable daily/as well as easy stock like maint.? Probably wouldnt be able to use stock ECU huh?

I feel that once I have that motor out and plenty of time to do it right, I might as well go big, but not at the sake of reliability. Turbo seems like a can of worms too with problems to deal with down the road. Am i asking for too much from an M20?

[Tsweers89]

more info on this 3.2L motor you speak of

[nando]

a stroker makes a pretty good daily - but I don't know if a 3.2 would get you to 200whp or not. it's harder with awd because there is more of a drivetrain loss. A stroker that would get you to that much power would require a lot of work to the head - an agressive cam, well tuned intake and exhaust, etc.

I think you're better off going with a 2.8 turbo - lower boost should be plenty reliable and a lot more economical to reach your power goals. Plus you can always turn up the boost for fun times :)

if you want a setup to copy - I'd do a motor like blacktrail69's. I think he was making something like 400 at the crank, with room to spare

[aaron325ix]

Good advice, I think the 2.8 sound more practcal. But, would I need to do more to it than say what you did to yours in order for it to be turbo suitable. You mentioned "overbuild". Should I look at blacktrail69 for a good model? Thanks again.

[backtrail69]

I went serious overkill on overbuilding. I would get an eta crank, bore 1mm, forged pistons 8.5:1, re-bushed i rods (or any other 135mm length rod), Everything else standard rebuild, oil pump, bearings, seals etc. For the top end ARP headstuds from VAC, MLS head gasket or an o ringed block with stock HG, a new stock valve train. If you have the ability get the water channels welded, but if you don't I wouldn't worry much.

For electronics a full standalone w/ 42#+ injectors w/ a walboro 255 and a wideband go a long way.

Charge Piping: stick to 2.5in AL piping with NICE multi layer couplers with T bolts.

IC: Ebay bar and plate works wonderfully.

Exhaust: 3in with whatever muffler you deem appropriate.

Drivetrain: lengthen that front driveshaft and get new guibos, also a strong clutch, I am running a sachs 618 PP and a clutchnet sprung 6 puck and it is holding 331 whp with no problems.

Turbo/Manifold: I like my HX35, but any reasonably sized Genuine Garrett t3/t4 will work for a first setup, I whole heartly recommend the jon volk adapter, great unit. Stick to external WGs as they are generally more reliable and keep boost levels in check, I like TIAL.

That is just some of the things I thought I would touch on. You can see how to build your car over the top in my motor build thread...

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=101610

[aaron325ix]

very good info, thanks for that. I'm sure I dont have to ask if it is fun to drive. how are you on reliability, and smooth idle and things of that nature? I like how you moved the oil cooler to behind the kidneys, that is one of the things I was wondering about.

With the stand alone, does your OBC still work like stock, do you need an adj FPR? Welded coolant channels I am still unfamiliar with as well.

My current motor isnt exactly dead yet, but I am at the point where i am starting to collect parts, infact I am thinking of buying some pistons soon. I was thinking of MM 86mm. I figure that is a good starting point, one of the most expensive parts,and go from there, so when the motor shits the bed I can be ready to rebuild.

Side note: I was planning on getting a IE cat back like next week as i am sick of my B&B tri-flo(too loud). Will the IE be good enough for what i am potentially planning, or should I hold off and wait or get something different? Thanks again.
AW

[nando]

very good info, thanks for that. I'm sure I dont have to ask if it is fun to drive. how are you on reliability, and smooth idle and things of that nature? I like how you moved the oil cooler to behind the kidneys, that is one of the things I was wondering about.

reliability - that's the reason you build it well, don't skimp on important peices of the puzzle. I can't speak for issac, but my idle is just as good as it was with motronic - I'm using MS2/extra's PWM closed loop to control the stock ICV.

With the stand alone, does your OBC still work like stock, do you need an adj FPR? Welded coolant channels I am still unfamiliar with as well.

No, the OBC won't work, unless you can figure out a way to input the VSS and a calculation for the present fuel rate (econogauge). An adjustable FPR is pretty much a waste of money, but a gauge is a good thing to have - if you happen to find a AFPR with a gauge, pick one up and just set it to stock (43.5psi). Welding the head means welding the coolant channels to be more like the late M30 head - early M30s and all M20s have really wide coolant channels that are uneccesary for cooling and cause the head to flex quite a bit (this is bad on a turbo).

My current motor isnt exactly dead yet, but I am at the point where i am starting to collect parts, infact I am thinking of buying some pistons soon. I was thinking of MM 86mm. I figure that is a good starting point, one of the most expensive parts,and go from there, so when the motor shits the bed I can be ready to rebuild.

You can have MM make you 86mm pistons, but keep in mind their off the shelf pistons are 10:1 - but they are willing to build you lower compression or any bore diameter really. I don't know if it works on turbos but it's pretty nice to have the deep valve pockets for non interference :)

Side note: I was planning on getting a IE cat back like next week as i am sick of my B&B tri-flo(too loud). Will the IE be good enough for what i am potentially planning, or should I hold off and wait or get something different? Thanks again.
AW

I would wait, or get something cheap (stock muffler maybe?). you're going to want a single 3" exhaust pretty much, a cat back isn't going to do you any good with a turbo.

[aaron325ix]

I'm thinking I might just go with a stroker to start, break it in and see how I like it, maybe even put headers on and the like. When I get back into the mts., if I feel it is lacking I can still turbo it right?

Which brings up the question's: What pistions should i go with? I think I'm set on MM for sure with the non interferance, but you said 10:1 wont be good to turbo later on right? So I should still consider getting some 8.5:1 made from them, and still be happy with those if I decide to stay NA?

As far as everything else, I would still want to overbuild, welded coolant channels etc. and with stroked I can still use motronic right?

[aaron325ix]

e28 block

someone told me that a block from an e28 528e will work for my iX rebuild considering the oil pump location etc. Any ideas on this?

[nando]

nope - pump location has nothing to do with it. the ix pump is in the front of the block just like any other M20. the differences is an entirely different mount, pickup, reversed flow, and reversed intermediate shaft. the E28 block is the same as any other E30 block - it just has a different pan.

[beamR X]

recesitating the thread

So, nando, what does one do to the bottom end to marry the e block to the iX oil pump guts.

I am seriously considering building a stroker there are couple of tasty 325es for sale locally and I'm 1/2 way torn into my motor already (head gasket's pulled)