Leather beyond Rejuvenation?

[Dave McLaren]

The rear seat bottom in my vert is pretty dry and has shrunk up. I've seen worse looking vert seats, but still, this needed serious rehab. I've been reading a lot about Leatherique and started using it yesterday. It's just one day, but I've really been working it.

Yesterday:
1- cleaned with Prestine Clean (the co. misspelled "pristine"). Allowed to dry thoroughly.
2- applied Rejuvenator, working in by hand. Applied Saran Wrap to reduce evaporation.

Today:
3- cleaned with Prestine Clean. Allow to dry.
4- applied Rejuvenator liberally, wrapped with clear Home Depot painter's tarp, let sit in sun (it was 80 degrees here in OC) for about two hours.
5- Lifted tarp, spritzed with filtered water to re-wet, work in, closed tarp. Let sit about two more hours, but in the shade.
6- cleaned with Prestine Clean. Allow to dry.
7- applied Rejuvenator, working it in by hand for about 30 minutes. let stand in shade, uncovered, about two hours.
8-applied more Rejuvenator, working it in, let stand, went out to dinner.
9- spritzed with water, wipe down with cloth.
10- applied more Rejuvenator. Going to leave it overnight.

The leather is a little softer, but things still look shrunken up. Check out the seams where the knee bolster meets the butt area and center bolster:







The rear seat back was recovered by World Upholstery by the PO, so that's in great shape.

Am I just wasting my time getting Popeye forearms? I was hoping that the leather would relax more than it has by now, considering how hard I've been working it in a 24 hour period.

Dave

[td325ic]

I've been doing some e30 leather projects recently and I've used quite a bit of leatherique rejuvinator oil and have some experience with it. The stuff does work well but only if it can actually get past the old 20 year old dye that is on your seat. See the original dye acts like a sealer and the rejuvinator oil is not able to penetrate through it so the oil just sits on the surface doing very little.

Unfortunately, to see some benefit of the rejuvinator oil you need to at the very least lightly sand the old dye. You could start with around 800-1000 wet or dry Sandpaper or a Grey, Very Fine, scotch brite pad. If you do it light enough you won't hurt the finish and break through the color.

So give the seat a very light sand, apply the oil and put saran wrap over it, then put it out in the sun. If you have hot direct sun then put a towel over the seat. You want it warm but not super burning hot. The heat helps open the pores in the leather and allows the oil to absorb better.

I don't think you'll ever get the leather to "unshrink" but you may be able to get things soft and more plump.


Now here's some more advice to give you better results but it may make this more of a project then you want to take on:

With that said, if you want to see a night and day difference in the softness of your hard leather then really what you have to do is remove as much of that shitty old lacquer based dye as you can and then re-dye your seats with some of Leatherique's water based dye. I've discovered that the old inflexible and brittle dye is the main reason why the leather feels hard and stiff. Once you remove some of the dye you won't believe how big of a difference that makes in the softness of the leather.

To remove and soften the old dye use this prep solution, which I got from The Interior Guy. The solution is Isopropryl alcohol, TSP substitute, acetone, ammonia, and water, mixed in fifths in a spray bottle. This solution will soften, remove the old dye and prep the seats to accept new dye. Use this solution with 600grit sandpaper or a Grey Scotch Brite pad and wetsand the seats. Wear a respirator and rubber gloves.

That may seem like some harsh chemicals but it works really well. I'll do a small writeup in the near future to show off my results.

If you have a spare seat with bad leather then try this as a quick experiment: Put some acetone on a terry cloth and scrub the stiff leather. You should see the dye start to rub off and the leather should get noticeably softer.

[Tricked 323i]

Dave,
Your leather will never be as soft factory, or expand where it has shrunk. Just keep working with the oils, it will not happen overnight. Remember you are trying to rejuvenate 20+ year old leather that has been beaten by the sun. When the leather is compromised it starts dry out, hence the top dye cracks. It is hard to bring leather back to life no matter what you do. I would say just keep working with it but have patience. I sell a lot of water based dye products, I tell my customer to hit it with 400 grit wipe it off with mineral spirits and apply the dye.
Kevin

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=37462&highlight=artisan+dye

[Dave McLaren]

Wow, thanks for sharing your experience, guys.

td325ic: I went to Home Depot and I couldn't find wet/dry sandpaper that fine, nor could I find the very fine scotchbrite. The finest sandpaper in the paint department was 600 grit, and they had some fine stainless steel wool pads, so I bought both.

Back home, I cleaned the seat with water and let it dry. I started with the sandpaper, and it seemed to be doing a good job scuffing without taking off much color. Then I tried the steel wool pad, and that worked well too, and I think it was easier to use, especially navigating around the stitches. Then I cleaned it with water and paper towels, and a fair amount of colored stuff came up.

Next I slathered on the Rejuvenator, worked it in, took it outside and covered it with the disposable plastic painter's tarp, and covered that with a beach towel. The towel is a great idea, because without it the dark seat reaches wicked temps in no time. The towel lets it get plenty warm without frying the leather. It's a hot but breezy day in OC, in the high 80s, and in about two hours most of the Rejuvenator had either dried or was absorbed. I hit it again pretty hard with the Rejuvenator and covered it again.

Meanwhile, the family is in the back yard, the pool is at 87 degrees and climbing (the solar panels AND gas heater are maxed), and I'll be cooking fajitas on the grill in about half an hour. Hopefully by the time I'm soft and plump, the seat will be too. :- )

Dave

[Dave McLaren]

Last night I brought the seat in and it made a little difference, but there's still a way to go. When I got home from the office today, I cleaned it with water and tried some different stuff Ron Perry gave me the other day. I don't know what it is, as he jokingly called it his secret formula. I worked some in and threw the plastic tarp back over it. It's pretty hot in the garage, so I'll just leave it overnight. I'll probably clean it again in the morning, hit it with Rejuvenator, and do the outside thing again.

Maybe if I'm patient, doing this for days on end, or maybe give it a rest then hit it again in a week, or weeks, this thing will get somewhat better. One conclusion I've drawn from this is that leather makes no frickin' sense in a convertible.

[Tricked 323i]

One conclusion I've drawn from this is that leather makes no frickin' sense in a convertible.

I usually talk customers out of leather ( at least the center sections) when they are redoing their verts and after some time they thank me for it.
Kevin

[atle36m3]

I usually talk customers out of leather ( at least the center sections) when they are redoing their verts and after some time they thank me for it.
Kevin

Kevin is wise in the ways of leather....

[Cha Ching]

Dave, for what it's worth, it sounds like you are on the right track. I'm in the same position with my 88 'vert. I read a thread on a Lexus forum (back when I had my GS300) & the guy used Fast Orange to clean his seats before applying the Leatherique products.

Anyhow, a lot of guys posted about how abrasive Fast Orange could be, but they also mentioned the need to get the leather 'sealer' stuff off the seat. Would love to see more pics when you've got things sorted out.

My leather seats are as dry as the desert sand.

[Tricked 323i]

Someone sent me this link, one of my customers dye jobs. Not sure the condition of his seats before he started but you might PM and ask.
Kevin

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=126649

[devonjordan]

Last night I brought the seat in and it made a little difference, but there's still a way to go. When I got home from the office today, I cleaned it with water and tried some different stuff Ron Perry gave me the other day. I don't know what it is, as he jokingly called it his secret formula. I worked some in and threw the plastic tarp back over it. It's pretty hot in the garage, so I'll just leave it overnight. I'll probably clean it again in the morning, hit it with Rejuvenator, and do the outside thing again.

Maybe if I'm patient, doing this for days on end, or maybe give it a rest then hit it again in a week, or weeks, this thing will get somewhat better. One conclusion I've drawn from this is that leather makes no frickin' sense in a convertible.

You know RP, so you know EXACTLY what that secret formula was...

[Dave McLaren]

I got pissed trying to fight the stupid leather. Since the seatback leather had been replaced by World Upholstery, I called them to see what it cost for the seat bottom leather. At the time I hadn't planned on ordering it, but I'm impulsive and whipped out my Mastercard.

The package arrived yesterday and the leather looks great.







Looks like I'll stick with the original Indigo leather for a while. Honestly, I always liked the Alpine / Indigo cabrio combo. I'll just have to be diligent in minimizing sun exposure and treating the leather. While parking at my office I've been using the BMW rear window shade that clips on the exterior of the window. Anytime I'll be parked for a while I'll use it. So I've got lightly tinted windows, the BMW front and rear shades, that should be pretty good at keeping sun exposure to a minimum.

I'm also going to get an OEM wind screen (one was on ebay last week but I only put in a max bid of $325 and lost!) and add something to cover the top of the rear seat back. That shade, plus the extra bit, will really help keep sun off the back seat, even with the top down.

Dave

[CorvallisBMW]

While parking at my office I've been using the BMW rear window shade that clips on the exterior of the window. Anytime I'll be parked for a while I'll use it.

Dave

Do you have a part # for that? I've been looking for one but have had no luck.

[td325ic]

Do you have a part # for that? I've been looking for one but have had no luck.

Part # is 51431943740, looks to be $94.00 at Pelican Parts and $172 at Tischer.