OK I just have to ask why?

[hendrixvodu]

H4's here! i like the dual filament bulbs in the H4 ...because i have my h1's as individuals so i can just use them by them selves in fog, but i can also use my h4s as highs because they are dual...pretty cool....plus having the yellow 2nd lights "middle high beams" looks awesome in fog!!!!!! :-)

[AlarmedBread]

Because when I crack a lens, all I have to replace is a $30 lens, not a whole sealed beam. ;)

[SandyEggoE30Girl]

Because when I crack a lens, all I have to replace is a $30 lens, not a whole sealed beam. ;)

Euro H1-H4s are not a sealed beam headlight systems actually. You have the reflector, a lens, and the H4 or H1 fit inside.
I mean I get the whole ellipsoidal projector thing trust me on that! But my lights are aimed right, and I have no problem seeing with my brights, nor do I blind the oncoming traffic. I mean if you want to go to an HID system for the colour temp cool?
I mean I spent 200 for all four brand new lights (hella) with silver star H1 & H4s.
OH! and if you are cruising at a high speed in neighborhoods where children and animals are out in you should not be traveling at a high rate of speed PERIOD!
I think all of us have places to have fun on? ((((JUST SAY OK MOM!))):tsk:

[mode]

The only people that can talk are people that have owned every single lighting system for an e30.

I have owned a sealed beam e30, and an ellipsoid e30. I prefer the ellipsoid.

I have not owned an H1/H4 setup, so i wont comment on that.

[SandyEggoE30Girl]

I was asking why?
So far no one has given me a great answer to my question.

[StereoInstaller1]

OK, so tj...since you started off sounding like an ass, lets start over. You seem highly experienced on this subject, so I am gonna hijack the hell out of our lovely SD girls thread and ask you some questions. If you don't mind, that is.

These lights you show in the pics are Hella H9 projectors, right? Is this page the same part? $58 bucks apiece is pretty cheap for super trick new-tech H9 projectors.

Hella H9 projector.









Modern projectors have their place and are superior to most forms of reflector headlights including H4, but they are very different from 20 year old factory units from an E30. Don't get me wrong. Smilies are pretty good headlights, especially compared to any DOT headlight pre 1997. But today there are better cheaper options out there.

So, since the US ellips are relatively cheap (mine were $125/set shipped, IIRC) I feel they are an excellent option to what was otherwise available to me.

As a 27 year veteran of high end stereo installation, I have highly advanced fabrication skills...which I rarely use in my own cars...but I am willing.

You seem to feel that the modern H9 housing is going to outperform my US spec ellipsoids. I am not trying to disagree, but simply would like you opinion. Do you feel that they (H9s) are better than those same housings with HID? In other words, my issue is age and night vision trouble. I could not care less about "bling" (maybe a bit about bragging rights, but only if it truly kicks ass)

If I read this right, these housings with bulbs are only $58 each. If they require some surgery to fit you housings, it still seems like a hell of a bargain.

Back to the debate...personally, I have never seen an H4 with anywhere near legal wattage bulbs come close to my ellipsoids. This is not my field of expertise, either. I just want to be able to see!

I was asking why?
So far no one has given me a great answer to my question.

In my case it is because I am old and blind. I need to see at night, and the H4s I have seen are unimpressive compared to my US ellipsoids.

I do not haul ass in neighborhoods, nor do I blast my stereo (and blast it does). My issues are more deer or elk on deserted highways, unlit bicyclists on (in the fucking middle of) city streets and being 43, plus having crappy vision all of my life.

Thanks!
Luke

[Van Westervelt]

When I fist bought my 87is a few years ago, I did notice that the sealed beams were rather well................. not very bright.
So I upgraded to H1, H4s and thought that was pretty cool. Well living in the city I rarely use my high beams, but tonight I was coming home in Point Loma Down Canon Road and used them. I could not believe how bright they were, and they only cost 200 brand new.
So my question is why spend all that money on the elipsoidal headlights? I mean I agree that they look cool, but me............ well I would rather spend my money on mods that make my car go faster around corners and such?
So I just had to ask why I guess?

I am choosing to ignore the previous posts and address this question.

It seemd you were impressed when you turned on your high beams, right? How about with just the lowbeams?

And I dont have anything on my car for "bling" factor. Near everything is purpose driven. My car had ellips from the factory, so I retain them. And HID's project light further with more lumens than a halogen bulb. "Its science." :p

[tjts1]

OK, so tj...since you started off sounding like an ass, lets start over. You seem highly experienced on this subject, so I am gonna hijack the hell out of our lovely SD girls thread and ask you some questions. If you don't mind, that is.

These lights you show in the pics are Hella H9 projectors, right? Is this page the same part? $58 bucks apiece is pretty cheap for super trick new-tech H9 projectors.

So, since the US ellips are relatively cheap (mine were $125/set shipped, IIRC) I feel they are an excellent option to what was otherwise available to me.

As a 27 year veteran of high end stereo installation, I have highly advanced fabrication skills...which I rarely use in my own cars...but I am willing.

You seem to feel that the modern H9 housing is going to outperform my US spec ellipsoids. I am not trying to disagree, but simply would like you opinion. Do you feel that they (H9s) are better than those same housings with HID?

Luke
Yes I did start sounding like an ass. I do that when I get fired up about a subject. I apologies to anyone that was offended. Its a character flaw. I'm working on it.

Yes those are the exact projectors I purchased from the same site. I picked that projector mostly because of the price and sort of built the housing around it. I'm not sure exactly how you would make it fit in the E30 but when there is a will theres a way. I've always dealt with halogen headlights only. Never installed a HID kit so please take what I say on the subject with a grain of salt.
My favorite characteristic about these H9 projectors is that they throw the hot spot of the light down the center axis of the headlight all the way up to the horizontal cut off. This works great with the H9 bulb which its designed for but I'm not sure how this will translate to a HID bulb.
Based on this info:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/bulb_types/bulb_types.html

US ellipsoid using 9005 bulb puts out 1000 lumens
ecode ellipsoid using H1 bulb put out 1500 lumens (up to 1795 with high efficiency bulb)
H9 bulb puts out 2100 lumens (Its actually too bright for a halogen bulb in europe. Only legal in US)
A hid bulb will give you 2800 to 3200 lumens (D2S or D2R)
So for $125 you'll double your light output and get to about 2/3 of the way to HID. This is where you start running into the law of diminishing return.
The H9 projector is actually sold as a HID kit (bottom of the same page) and a lot of people have actually converted it to HID themselves. The only difficult part is centering the bulb properly. I suspect the H9 projector will give you a more even distribution of light with better cut off and less stray light than a US ellipsoid. But thats just a guess. I decided to stick with the halogen bulbs because of cost and I find that driving with HIDs my eyes get tired faster. But for all out light output you can't beat HID.
Good luck

You can find some good information on the subject here including beam pattern pics and build ups. They also have some pics of H7 + HID which gives you an idea of the difference in beam pattern.

http://faqlight.carpassion.info/car-with-conv-oem-halo-projectors.htm

More good info.

http://faqlight.carpassion.info/headlamp-faq.htm

Hella 90mm H9 projector + HID


With US ellipsoids, you won't get that clean horizontal cut off.

[Van Westervelt]

Okay, so we went from saying that the reflector h4 setup was great to talking about how we custom built all these other units, using projectors. In all of the information and links that have been posted, the mere subject of "projectors" shows they outperform any bucket reflective light setup (h4). And where does it talk about the inefficiency of a projector that was built then vs now? All the details outlined in those right ups and more, even further show that the Hella and BOSCH ellipsoid projectors are top notch. They meet all the "ideal" areas of improvement on projectors.

So since tjts1 changed his argument in the middle, and edits his posts 9 hours after he posts them, I am done with your little silly shenanigans.

Oh, and my Hella's were built in 2005. And that site refers to Projectors as showing up on cars as soon as the early 1990's, funny how BMW was using them in the 80's.

Its fact Projectors > Reflectors.

Now trying to say who's projectors are better, is null, pointless, and unsubstantiated.

[StereoInstaller1]

Personally, I am down with one point ONLY...I want to see.

SD girl (and her less than 26" waist and DD boobs) was asking about the cost vs. benefit of ellipsoids...I say the best value in lighting is a used set of US ellipsoids and chinese HIDs, for a total of about $250, typically.

I suppose if you are hung up on the whole "new" thing, the H1/H4 combo is likely the cost winner. I drive an E30...I buy used.

Seems to me there may be a chance of using the new H9 projector elements in my US ellipsoid housings, which should be a neater beam, but likely to be serious custom work involved...but bragging rights, too.

So, I think I am gonna order a pair of those (woot, DDs!) Hella H9s in the next few weeks. I am gonna power them up and compare to my 9005-powered US spec ellipsoids. I am sure they will kick the crap out of them, so I will take both apart and see how much hassle it will be to fabricate something.

I also wonder if you could take a set of Mr Lens E30 lenses, the Hella H9 projectors, the mounting plates they make for them and maybe fabricate something that looks kinda stock, but high tech and cool and stuff.

Luke

[SandyEggoE30Girl]

Thanks you guys.....................

You know what would be fun? To take several cars with different headlight systems, and test them with my light meter. Also look at the drop off of the beam pattern in comparison.
I don't know? I am kinda geekie that way I reckon?

OH! and I will agree that the ellipsoidal's do look shweet! Would I sport them on my motor? Yes!

But knowing that some here are on a budget, I would think that performance upgrades would be item number one, not mtech kits, or lights?
Not that I don't think that making our beloved little cars look cool is dumb at all. Hell I just bought a armrest rear seat, and m tech cloth for my 325is, and it will be getting an interior make over as soon as I find a few more bits.

[tjts1]

So since tjts1 changed his argument in the middle, and edits his posts 9 hours after he posts them, I am done with your little silly shenanigans.

LOL I changed my argument? Thats a good one. I'm sticking with my original point. Smilie elipsoids are a still a waste of money and the only real way to justify them is because of looks not light output. H4 headlights are still a cheaper, better choice. All the other stuff we've discussed like H9 projectors and HIDs are far more expensive and don't have anything to do with the original question. I don't see how thats changing my argument but thats fine. You seem to think that I edited my post in order to change my argument. I'm sorry to disappoint but I didn't change a thing. I was trying to add a higher res pic and checked spelling. I edit all my posts if i think I can improve something.

Oh, and my Hella's were built in 2005. And that site refers to Projectors as showing up on cars as soon as the early 1990's, funny how BMW was using them in the 80's.

Its fact Projectors > Reflectors.

Now trying to say who's projectors are better, is null, pointless, and unsubstantiated.

Your Hellas built in 2005 are the same unchanged design from 20 years ago. The simple fact that they use H1 or 9005 bulbs shows their age. All projectors are not created equal. There are no new projectors using those bulbs. The vast majority of halogen projectors use H7 bulbs with a handful of H9s.

[Van Westervelt]

Show me how the Euro Ellipsoids are archaic in their design vs what you call "modern" ellipsoidal projectors.

-edit-
Oh, and the reasoning behind them using different bulbs, has nothing to do with the "projector." They use different bulbs because technology allowed them to get more output out of a newer designed halogen bulb.

[mikeedler]

and your straight cut off that you have in your one pic there is crap. the design of the euro ellip is to have a cut off to the right to see on the side of the street(a deer that wants to jump out in front of you.)

I also wasnt talking about racing through streets ( I have a kid too)- [I] was talking about seeing on the side of the street- at normal speeds.-

I do agree though, that I wouldnt buy a brand new set of euro ellips for 550 dollars, but for the used price they are the same as what you paid.

[tjts1]

Show me how the Euro Ellipsoids are archaic in their design vs what you call "modern" ellipsoidal projectors.

-edit-
Oh, and the reasoning behind them using different bulbs, has nothing to do with the "projector." They use different bulbs because technology allowed them to get more output out of a newer designed halogen bulb.

Ok Mr Man. You win! Congratulations.

and your straight cut off that you have in your one pic there is crap. the design of the euro ellip is to have a cut off to the right to see on the side of the street(a deer that wants to jump out in front of you.)

If you read the link where that pic came from you'll see that the owned modified the the shield inside the projector in order to get the "crap" beam pattern. The standard H9 projectors has a Z beam cut off shield.

Low beam cutoff: Straigth cutoff was selected because of aggressively lowered suspension.

Unmodified H9 projectors + HID looks like this.