Wire joins: solder vs. butt connector

[george graves]

where does one find the heat+solder or just heat-shrink-wrap crimp deals?

Hardware store and autoparts stores are carrying them now. I think I even saw them at walmart. You'll kidding yourself if you think you're going to make a sealed connector. It won't happen. It's amazingly hard to actually seal something. The only thing you'll end up doing is creating a partially sealed connection that will allow water in and then trap some of it there. Just look at e30 headlights as an example. You'll have a better chance at encapsulating something(like luke's susgetion) against the outside world than you will against sealing it.

I got the channel lock crimpers Luke is talking about after his recommendation

Ordered. The only difference seems to be the crimper is move closer to the fulcrum. Should save my wrists for more "special" alone-time activities.

Butt connectors do not have those issues, as the crimp (and you cannot pull mine apart, I promise) actually forges the wire into a solid structure with the metal of the connector.

You're on glue if you think the wire is not oxidizing in there. Not to mention that you've crimped it into a solid ball of metal. But I'll give you're magical crimpers a try.

[AndrewBird]

A question at this point: where does one find the heat+solder or just heat-shrink-wrap crimp deals?

NAPA usually has then, but I like to buy them from www.waytekwire.com. Here are a few assorted kits that are nice:

http://order.waytekwire.com/products2/M50/320/805/0/1/Terminal%20Connector%20Kit/Terminals%20And%20Connectors/

[StereoInstaller1]

That (^) be the crimpers that have spent SO many hours in my hands.

If ya wanna waterproof connection but don't have solder/shrink goodies hanging around, try squirting a tiny bit of normal RTV or whatever silicone in the end of the butt before you shove the wire in and crimp it.

I worked with a guy from Alaska. He taught me that and some other tricks, but I can't remember them or I stole them so completely I think I made them up myself.

[nmlss2006]

A question at this point: where does one find the heat+solder or just heat-shrink-wrap crimp deals? I'll look for the channel-lock pliers too.
http://www.channellock.com/Category.aspx?zcid=125 ?

[AndrewBird]

I got the channel lock crimpers Luke is talking about after his recommendation and I have to back him up in that they are the best crimpers you can buy. At least, for insulated terminals that is. They kind of suck for non-insulated, but I bought a different pair of crimpers specifically for that.

I will also agree that Scotch Locks sucks ass. They never work as they should, form a crappy loose connection and just all around suck.

I personally will always crimp connections in cars for the reasons that Luke listed. There is a time and place where soldering is necessary, but I do not think it is in a place where moisture/vibration/etc. is prevalent.

I kind of like the idea of the crimp connectors that have a low temp solder and shrink wrap built into them. Basically you crimp them on as normal, then use a heat gun or micro torch to solder/heat shrink all in one. I imagine this would be the best of both worlds, but IMO, is overkill for most situations. Even crimp connectors with built-in heat shrink is overkill for inside a vehicle (great for exterior stuff though).

[Van Westervelt]

I need a better pair of crimpers too.

[Spaz]

I use the crimper like george has above, but you can also get oe style open barrel connectors!

You can get the crimpers and dies from this site.

http://www.vintageconnections.com/

-Cam

[george graves]

Luke please give me a model number/picture of this magical crimper. I must give it a try.

I currently use the kind that just has the single peg that dimples the connector. It works great.

Just as a side note - I was looking around a while ago, and purchased this more expensive tool "heavy duty crimper", that's suppose to be the proper tool. Man does it suck:

[reelizmpro]

.Nothing wrong with crimps as long as you use the right sizes and have a decent crimping tool. Nothing wrong with soldering as long as you know how and properly insulate. I don't think it's much of an issue, they each have their applications.

[Danny]

Luke worked on my stereo.

[StereoInstaller1]

BTW guys, don't get me wrong: soldering is necessary pretty often, but in no way is it better than crimping. Crimps are superior in automotive use in ALL ways. If you can't make a tidy bundle of connections that is your issue. My shit is always pretty!

[StereoInstaller1]

I get more experience in 1 year working on electricals in cars than all 3 of those guys get in a lifetime...I say my opinion carries more weight.

Butt connectors do not have those issues, as the crimp (and you cannot pull mine apart, I promise) actually forges the wire into a solid structure with the metal of the connector.

Tool? Stamped metal piece of shit? NOT allowed in my shop, at all, ever.

Recommended: ChannelLock crimpers. Best connection, excellent value.

[george graves]

If any of you could show me a solder joint that has been in a car for more than 5 years that isn't corroded I might change my opinion...but butt connectors still win, especially in the professional world, where seat/dash/carpet burns and soldering while upside down etc make it damn near impossible to get any work done and maintain quality.

You guys have to remember that the average solder job is crap, as is the average crimp. A proper crimp (and EVERY SINGLE crimp of mine passes the 5lb test, unless it is 20ga or higher wire) is best IMO, but as far as typical hackery, I will take a hacked crimp over a crappy solder joint any day.

If you are one of the rare few who can solder correctly, have at it. Having taken apart hundreds and hundreds of solder joints and seeing how none of the manufacturers use solder on any wire tells me my proof is still correct. I am all about learning something new though, so shoot me a link to this new "non corrosive" solder/flux.

And George...fucking scotch locks? What bullshit is that? Maybe if you are dealing with .5A or less, but if you are running ANY kind of power through that you are an absolute fucking retard. Microscopic contact area, piss poor oxidization resistance, etc...scotchlocks are crap. I have seen so many of those actually melted from "out of spec" use...well, I just do not do bullshit like that, ever.

Luke

- It's pointless to argue this. If you don't believe a NASA soldering instructor and two MIT electrical engineers, then fine. No skin off my nose. :)

- Solder, butt connectors, quick splices are all tools. You want to use the right tool for the right job. Up inside a dash, I'm maybe soldering iron isn't the right tool to be using. Connecting an amp to power, of course a quick splice isn't the right tool. One isn't universally "better" then the other. :p

- Soldering is easy - don't make people afraid of it. Yea, you'll make some joints that look like a turd with thorns poking out of it, but you'll get better with time. :) and at least you can *see* the joint.

- half an amp is a ton of current to me. Sorry - I don't think on terms of car amps and shit. So 3m quick splices work very well for my stuff. As far as "Microscopic contact area, piss poor oxidization resistance" butt connectors have the same problem. Any mechanical connection will have that problem. That's why solder is always going to be a better choice if you are worried about that.

[erik325i]

I solder and heat shrink most of the time. I trust the connection better, and it is much cleaner.

Erik

[nmlss2006]

Luke, as far as I know the different types of flux are older than even you :). There's information everywhere, starting from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldering .
I will grant you that if you're in odd positions a butt splice may be easier to make, but you have all sorts of issues, including TWO different metal interfaces, the quality of the connector (a lot of those I've seen seem to be aluminium - an Al/Cu contact join will not last long), the quality of the crimping tool (I can easily bend the ones you can buy virtually anywhere: after that, I can pull the crimp apart almost effortlessly - No, I am not particularly strong either). I am sure one can make excellent crimp joins, but I'll take a quick solder with decent core over the joins that *I* am able to make with equipment at hand.