Wire joins: solder vs. butt connector

[Gregs///M]

solder sleeves simplify the process
1. slide sleeve over stripped and cleaned wire to be soldered
2. twist wire strands together
3. slide sleeve over connection and heat evenly to 800 degrees with a heat gun.

solder melts, heat shrink shrinks, and adhesive binds and seals the connection for weather resistance and strain relief.


with the heat shrink removed it should look something like below.

I don't know if these will flow thoroughly into the wire. I would be afraid of these only flowing on the outside of the two twisted wires.

Also, heating the insulation to 800 degree's seems quite a lot. I would prefer to solder the traditional way and using heat shrink with epoxy lining.

[bimmerteck]

you guys have any pics of a properly soldered splice? I have a pretty good idea of what it's supposed to look like, but I'm not a pro. I don't really like soldering spliced joints though, it's too easy to end up with a really thick/stiff joint, especially if you can't get heatshrink over it and have to use tape. I don't like but splices either. actually, I prefer to just run a whole new wire..

I've been soldering since I was about 8. I "fixed" my old radioshack RC truck (added more batteries for extended range). I also broke it by trying to figure out how the radio worked. hehehe.

solder sleeves simplify the process
1. slide sleeve over stripped and cleaned wire to be soldered
2. twist wire strands together
3. slide sleeve over connection and heat evenly to 800 degrees with a heat gun.

solder melts, heat shrink shrinks, and adhesive binds and seals the connection for weather resistance and strain relief.


with the heat shrink removed it should look something like below.

[nando]

that's a really neat crimping tool!

[DaveSmed]

Also, I was always taught to have a strong mechanical connection BEFORE you flow the solder, twist the wires together tightly and enough times that they are difficult to pull apart. THEN solder them for a proper joint.

On another note:
I was working on a big european piece of equipment today, and instead of tinning the ends of the wire where they terminate in a terminal block, they have these nifty crimp on shields that encapsulate the strands in a thin metal tube. I didn't have any of the Starfix ends handy so I tinned the ones I was working on. :-o

[kronus]

For stranded wire, I typically mesh the two together end-to-end and twist, then flow solder into the joint. It will be stiff, that's unavoidable, but it's usually no bigger externally than the insulation diameter and the twist locks the wires together pretty well.

Use marine heatshrink, also, not the regular stuff. It releases epoxy when it shrinks, sealing the connection and providing some stress relief for the joint.

[nando]

you guys have any pics of a properly soldered splice? I have a pretty good idea of what it's supposed to look like, but I'm not a pro. I don't really like soldering spliced joints though, it's too easy to end up with a really thick/stiff joint, especially if you can't get heatshrink over it and have to use tape. I don't like but splices either. actually, I prefer to just run a whole new wire..

I've been soldering since I was about 8. I "fixed" my old radioshack RC truck (added more batteries for extended range). I also broke it by trying to figure out how the radio worked. hehehe.

[German Audio Specialties]

Not trying to be disrespectful or anything Luke.

and none taken at all, thanks.

Now with a heavily experienced installer such as yourself and myself, we can go crimped or soldered and it will outlast the life of the car itself.

Exactly. It is the hacks I worry about. I think we all agree that soldering is a bit of an art, as is crimping (to a much less degree) making it far easier to master, thus my stance on the topic.

Luke

[homegrone30]

This thread just got real!

[bimmerteck]

1. Both methods can attain an acceptable lasting connection given the proper tools, supplies, and technique.

2. Many individuals lack the proper supplies/skills/care to do either correctly hence many failed connections of both types out in the field.

3. Poly solder sleeves or crimps with poly shrink and adhesive should always be used in exterior automotive applications to both seal the repair from corrosion and provide strain relief.


I'm perfectly happy to offer up my labscope skills to any damaged/defective connections either of you want to send me for analysis and will post up the results. Other than that the arguing is kind of pointless. To anyone else wanting to submit failed crimp/solder joints for testing please leave 1" on either side of the connector for me to connect the test leads. PM me for address info.

[Gregs///M]

Not trying to be disrespectful or anything Luke. I'm sure with your experience you crimp one hell of a connection that will last plenty of years. However, you seem very against the use of solder in the car environment, which is weird to me. Even going so far to say that you would not warranty a soldered connection.

I too was an installer for 8+years in the San Francisco Bay Area. My grandfather used to own a speaker and amp manufacturing facility since 1949 so I too am legacy in the automotive world. I've been soldering since I was a child so realistically my experience is more close to 20+ years but I only list my actual professional experience.

Additionally, you should realize that many BMW owners, including e30 owners are also professional technicians, installers, and engineers. Everyday I work with engineers with literally 50+ years experience (old guys near retirement) and they laugh at anyone who talks about crimping connections.

So its safe to say that I've worked on thousands of cars and installed thousands of alarms and components. I've only had to repair a handful of solder connections throughout my career but had to repair hundreds of crimped connections. These repairs are all repairs from other shops, so with that said. It seems to me, statistically, with an average installer, a soldered connection will outlast crimped connections.

I have soldered wires in many vintage and classic cars and never once had a problem soldering wires that are corroded. A good solder joint requires prep work in cleaning and preparing for the wires to have soldered applied by used of cleaning and additional flux. Besides, you don't solder heavily corroded wires, you replace them.

Now with a heavily experienced installer such as yourself and myself, we can go crimped or soldered and it will outlast the life of the car itself.

[homegrone30]

Not arguing like I said this is news to me, Im just picking your brain. But I do understand exactly what your saying and it does make sense. It just goes against pretty much everything I been taught thats why Im asking. I know you know what your doing Luke we should all know that by now.

[German Audio Specialties]

Lets be fair: lets compare quality crimp jobs that failed (proper tool, quality work) vs corroded-but-quality work solder joints. Since 99% of what a pro installer sees is crimped (lets toss the goddamn retards and their wire nuts, or the shitty "no tool" connectors, or stripped wire taped with duct tape, all complete trash in the trash, right?) I would say the crimp is fairly ahead, reliability-wise.

Generally though, those results are going to be skewed as good work rarely fails.

If you had any clue how many alarms I have taken apart, cut out all the solder joints and reconnected the same exact product and had it work perfectly when I was done you would never believe it.

Of course, all of that pales to the shittiest connector known: the "T-Tap". well. Of tools, shitty crimpers are easily the worst offender. Why the boneheads out there cannot seem to cough the $20 necessary to get a proper tool is beyond me, but I am the 10th son of a Bodyman, shop life is all I know.

As far as the whole "electrons flow on the surface" that is a well known concept, known as "skin effect". The actual point is that electrons spin down the surface of each individual strand...so if that were in fact the truth of how electrons travel down a wire, does it not seem to you that the "soldering" of a wire basically turns it into a single strand, thus massively limiting the actual current flow at the junction point?

Look, does this debate have to continue? Can we just say that a very well-known and respected 30 year professional installer says you need to get a good tool and crimp that shit? Nothing anyone has ever come up with is going to sway my opinion about solder and if you guys are as desperate to corrode some wire as you seem to be, have at it, just stay away from my electrical system. And, if you work on one of my customers cars, their warranty is void, period.

[dwvw]

I crimp most things in a car, using Klein crimpers, very similar to the channel lock ones, but I like having one red handle and one black handle. Makes it much easier to line up the seam for the crimp.

Now for remote starters and alarms, everything is soldered and heatshrink is used, or solder and 3M tape.

[homegrone30]

And luke couldnt the corrosion have been there before your soldered? Im not argueing as this is all news to me. Ive always soldered everything because I was taught its better. Ive never had a solder fail but I have had several crimps fail.

[homegrone30]

As I always understood both connections have there ups and downs dealimg with durability and corrosion. I always remember being told a soldered connection will carry more electrons (or is it protons?) because they flow on the surface of the metal. And when you crimp there is basically less surface area thus making a lesser connection. Im not saying your wrong Luke but how many alarms or stereo harnesses have you had to repair due to a shitty install using crimps. Vs an install with soldered connections. Does that question make sense?