My CD43 install thread - info gathering

[pegase747]

Hi all,

I know the subject has been beaten to death but still I need your valuable inputs.

I want to start planning my install so here is my thread. I'd like to have inputs from you guys, in order to help me and others who like to get the CD43 in their E30.

Please note my car does not have the premium souns system, nor any system at all. I will use also the GROM audio USB/Ipod/Aux input ( already purchased ).

I will run front components with passive crossovers in the front original E30 locations, coax in the rear deck for a bit of rear fill ( already have some holes for 5 1/4" speakers there ), and possible a small sub in the future.
The front componentsI plan to run are DLS R5A which are considered quite high quality here in Europe, made in Sweden, here is a link :

http://www.dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_59

I am not decided on the rear but I guess that can wait since it is only for rear fill...

My amp is an Alpina PMX-F640, which is a basic 4 ch amp, Europe only model. It is small and I believe will be sufficient for my application. The amp can accept Speaker level and RCA output.

Interface :

Would it be better to run the CD43 via an Audiocontrol LC6i or JL Audio Cleansweep before feeding the signal in my 4ch amp ?
or maybe just a cheap LOC ?

I've read lots of nice review of both units, but it seems to me that the cleansweep will deliver a nicer flat equalised signal. I've read good review of the LC6i and saw a few install thread with the CD43 too.

I am wondering which of those units will best to accept the balance differential output from the CD43 ?

Requirement :

I want a simple system, not too much bass, and I listen mostly old rock, blues and classic music.
I'd like to keep the CD43 tone/balance/fader control if possible but I have no problem to have a separate bass controller ( LC6i ) or volume controller ( Cleansweep ).

I will be glad to get your input.

I want to get the best from my CD43 using not-too-fancy hardware.

You input appreciated.


Cheers Pierre

[pegase747]

I mentionned LOC, but if my Amp accept speaker level input, can I run the speaker signal from the CD43 directly to those ??

Notices also the MTX RE-Q and RE-Q5 could do the interface between the CD43 and my AMP. any inputs on those ?

Pierre

[bmwman91]

If an amp has speaker-level inputs, it should be fine to run the CD43 to it. If you end up with bad alternator whine, then the amp's input stage is some hokey thing that only uses one of the 2 signal lines & you'll need an LC6i. Chances are that you'll be OK running the CD43 to the amp's speaker level inputs though. That should work fine with your "simple" mantra.

[pegase747]

BMWMAN thanks for you valuable ( as always ) input.

I guess I will try that first, and if I am not satisfied, I may add an interface in between the CD43 and the Amp.

Problem is AudioControl or JL audio products are hard to get in France, and you pay taxes if sent from the US. UK prices are expensive too.

In France we can find the RE-Q5 for a reasonnable price.
Did you come across the RE-Q5 before ?? It seems quite the challenger too for my install

Cheers Pierre

[bmwman91]

I didn't look at any other line-level converters. By the time I realized I needed one, I was in a mindset of, "son of a b***h...I need to get rid of this alternator noise, I am so sick of working on this project!" The Audiocontrol crossover I had already installed was of reasonable build quality (they are somewhat above-average, for car stuff), so I ordered an LC6i to match the other gear.

Honestly, any line level converter should work just fine. Handling a bridge tied load type output from the CD43 only takes $1.50 worth of op-amps, and it is far from rocket science. I would expect almost any LC to work fine. Pick one up that physically fits, and that fits your budget. 90% of audio is psychological anyway, which is why expensive stuff sells so well ("it costs $$$, damn it must sound really good" / "it cost me $$$, damn it sounds really good!"). Road noise does a wonderful job of masking any sonic imperfections :p.

[pegase747]

Ah Ah AH, I like your style and i think you are right !
I will see what fits and use a cheap one for a try...

Pierre

[bmwman91]

Cool, let us know how it all works out!

[pegase747]

Hi BMWMAN,

i think the quality of the CD43 will only be great if a lot of expensive bits are fitted, which is not reasonnable or practical as I don't use the car that often !
Also I have not much time for the install !

So call it a change of direction, I think I will use an other HU, see my new post here :

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?p=2268189#post2268189

I think this unit fitted with the small class D Plug-play Alpine KTP-445 Amp, a set of good component front, and a powered sub in the trunk, will likely provide good enough sound for a reasonnable price. Additionnaly i think it looks very E30 period, costs less than 100 Euros in France, and illuminates amber !

what you guys think ?

Pierre

[bmwman91]

Basically, all head units have the exact same sound quality. They all use variants of the same Toshiba or ST Microelectronics 4-channel integrated amplifier chips & various low-level ICs in-between. As far as sound quality is concerned, it doesn't matter at all which head unit you use. Pick one that fits your price, and aesthetic preferences.

[pegase747]

BMWMAN, that was exactly my thoughts, and I normally only use my USB stick as it is so convenient !

I believe the sound quality is much more dependant on the Install quality and which speakers/amps you use.

Cheers Pierre

[bmwman91]

SQ is very dependent on the installation. Speakers & amps are part of that, definitely. Having solid mounts & putting speakers into enclosures / places that don't leak also makes a difference.

The sound system will only be as good as the weakest link though. In this case, it is likely the head unit. Manufacturers use crappy chips, and the audio signal usually goes through at least two or three of these cheap stages before leaving the HU. So the signal is sort of less-than-ideal from the get-go.

However, in a car it doesn't matter anyway. Road & engine noise are at a much higher level than whatever imperfections come from the head unit & much of the rest of the setup. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it doesn't matter what you put in a car (that is driven, not used at auto audio shows) because you can definitely put BAD stuff in. You just don't need to spend ridiculous amounts of money on "high end" car audio stuff. Car audio gear is poop, and in order to get stuff that is not poop, you have to spend way too much money.

Look into "regular" speakers (ones that aren't market to the car crowd). Being in Europe, you will actually have some pretty good options in that respect. Really, $60 will get you nicer "regular" speakers then just about any "car" speaker I have seen for $250. Focus on making all of your wiring CLEAN, and the more stock everything looks the better. A clean, electrically sound installation will have many benefits.

[pegase747]

Just received DLS R5A components ! They will go in the front OEM location, I have the tweeters sails, and they fit just perfect once the little nokia speaker is out !

Pierre

[pegase747]

Ok guys,

I bring back this thread up as I will start the install on my B3 around new year, and i want to do it right.
So far i gathered many good info, thanks to mostly Stereoinstaller1 and BMWMAN91, who seem to be respectively the E30 Audio install expert and the E30 Electronic geek !
The route I am taking now, after hesitating between installing my CD43 and selling it and going the aftermarket way, is basically the following :

Please note that I have a basic install now which consists of a Pioneer deck ( ugly, but plays MP3) and the 4 Kenwood speakers installed by Alpina in 1988...

I will go the CD43 way, that will look the best, but I want it to play USB, so I have the Grom USB interface already purchased.
Interface between my CD43 and my AMp, I bought the Re-Q5, because it can accept the CD43 differential balanced output, which is good. Also it will boost the bass if the CD43 bass output is lowered at high volume. it will basically be an improved LOC for my CD43, and will give me 3 clean ( I hope ) RCA.

I will use one 4ch amp ( Alpine pmx-F640, 4x50W RMS, only in Europe ) to power a pair of DLS R5A components in front ( heard they give a very nice warm sound ), and maybe some coax for the rear deck, in case of rear fill required.

For the Sub, nothing planned yet, but i think i will do something like Luke-s Sub box, in the trunk, firing in the cabin through the skipass, probably with a 10" ported. My future box will be slightly different as where Luke's box usually stand, i have the optional Alpina long-range fuel tank, so it will be reduced in height, I will see but that is not for now anyway. Porbably I will use a 2ch amp bridged...

Talking about the wiring for audio system in E30, I have a few questions before I start my install :

1- What is the Gauge for the speaker wires installed originally by BMW ? AWG 16 ??

2- are the wires for the rear speakers all one one side or left on left side and right on right side ?

3- Where is the best to run RCA ( 3 x 2ch ), left, right or center ?

4- are the speaker wires run in a specific channel or in the bottom angle near the door seals ? Will RCAs fit there too ? Any pictures of the wire channels ?

5- My battery is in the trunk so the amp(s) will be in the trunk too to minimize the power line length and the noise. I will run the remote 12V signal for the amp maybe from the elec opening antenna signal ( I don't use the antenna, i never listen the radio ). but for my information, can low amp 12v remote signal create noise in the speaker wires or RCAs ??

Can the RCAs interfere with speaker wires as far as noise is concerned ?

Any help on all those questions will be greatly appreciated.


I will start around new year and will post pics of the progress in that thread, in case somebody is intrested.
Cheers Pierre

[StereoInstaller1]

Hey Pierre, I want you to climb over your gas tank with a flashlight a ruler.

I wanna know how much space there is between the vertical trunk braces and the gas tank.

If you have 3/4" (what is that like 721645mm?) between the tank and the firewall, you can make a small panel that will do the seal between the trunk and the box...then it is just an angled front box sealed into the car. You might have to go with a sealed box, and I expect a 10" is gonna be the only option.

When are you gonna be around your car again?

[pegase747]

Hi Luke,

3/4" is 19mm...Ok I will be near my car around Dec, 27, and will be starting my little install then.
I will take measurement for the extra fuel tank. The tank is only maybe 4" high so the top of the extra fuel tank maye still reach below the lowest edge of the ski pass, to be confirmed.
If that is the can, P planned to do a similar box than yours, just with a smaller volume. I think the whole skipass will be uncovered, but I will confirm that to when I have checked.

How about my other questions regarding wiring and routing ?? You seem to know exactly where the speaker wires are routed, i want to use the same routing.

1- What is the Gauge for the speaker wires installed originally by BMW ? AWG 16 ??

2- are the wires for the rear speakers all one one side or left on left side and right on right side ?

3- Where is the best to run RCA ( 3 x 2ch ), left, right or center ?

4- are the speaker wires run in a specific channel or in the bottom angle near the door seals ? Will RCAs fit there too ? Any pictures of the wire channels ?

5- My battery is in the trunk so the amp(s) will be in the trunk too to minimize the power line length and the noise. I will run the remote 12V signal for the amp maybe from the elec opening antenna signal ( I don't use the antenna, i never listen the radio ). but for my information, can low amp 12v remote signal create noise in the speaker wires or RCAs ??

6- Can the RCAs interfere with speaker wires as far as noise is concerned ?

Thanks for your help.