Radio Wiring and Amp Bypass

[tractioncircle]

I just installed a Pioneer DEH-X6600BT in my 91 325i with premium sounds following Luke's instruction on the first page. It sounds amazing now. Those factory premium speakers are pretty great I must say.

I did run into trouble trying to figure out the grounding scheme used. I trolled the net but did not find anything that was similar to What I had.

Here's what I had.

Head Unit chassis had two brown wires ground to it through a ring terminal.
Each of this brown wires was wired into 2 Yellow/Brown and 2 Blue Brown wires. These splices were six inches past the fader connector.

At the Amp end. The four wires (2 Yellow/brown, 2 Blue Brown) terminated into a single black brown wire at the connector. I had to strip back six inches from the connector to find the splice.

These four wires were each a part of a twisted pair with a '+' wire as described in the first post.

Once I figured this out, the rest was easy and matched with Luke's main post.

Do it guys, its not that hard after all.

Thanks a Ton Luke. You rock!

[danielmb]

Alpine Head Unit

After reading this thread, I am going to attempt to install an Alpine CDE-HD149BT, albeit with great trepidation. My car has no fader and tweeters on the doors by the mirrors. I assume this means I have the premium stereo. Assuming I have the premium stereo, is it necessary for me to bypass the stock amp or will it function with the new head unit?

[StereoInstaller1]

You can use the stock amp if you are OK less sound quality.

Your deck (hell, any $89 WalMart deck) makes better quality power and more of it.

You did not say what year and model your car is, but if it is no fader and has tweeters, the car should be '91, correct?

Don't be skeered, by now hundreds of installs have happened directly because of this thread. R3V will take care of you, and if they don't, I will.

Luke

[tomwas]

First, let me say this is NOT applicable to all E30s. Generally, Late Model (88+) will have this wiring on premium sound cars. IF you have a fader in the dash, this MAY work: you need to unwrap about 8" of fader harness to see if you have 4 pairs of speaker wires, as some cars have only 6 wires, not 4 pairs (8 total) so if this chart does not apply PERFECTLY to your car, don't use it.

Quick disclaimer: this is not idiot proof. You mess it up, don't whine at me, I do not care.

If this saves you countless hours of hassle or you are just feeling generous, feel free to paypal me a tip. Add "@gmail.com" to Stereoinstaller1 and I promise to only use the money for projects on my car.
I have a 90 vert w/prm sound, no fader and i'm not able to locate the brown/orange all grounding - wire in the trunk......... what am I missing..

OK, here is the info.

Obviously, what you do here is simple: connect the "deck" wire to the "dash" wire, then back at the trunk, connect that "dash" wire to the "speaker" wire.

This is not rocket surgery, boys. Get it done.



Aftermarket-----------Dash Wires-----------Speaker Wires

RF+ Grey--------------Blue/Red-------------Grey/White
RF- Grey/Black--------Brown/Orange--------Grey/Brown

LF+ White------------Yellow/Red------------Grey/Red
LF- White/Black-------Brown/Orange--------Grey/Violet

RR+ Violet------------Blue/Black------------Black/White
RR- Violet/Black-------Brown/Orange--------Black/Brown

LR+ Green------------Yellow/Black----------Black/Red
LR- Green/Black-------Brown/Orange--------Black/Violet


(+12V Unswitched) Yellow----Red/Green (Changes to Yellow at C302)

(+12V ACC) Red-------------Violet/White (Changes to Voilet/Grey at C302)

(Ground) Black---------------Brown (may also be Brown/Black)

(ILL) Orange-----------------Grey/Red (Changes to White at C302)

(P ANT) Blue-----------------White (this is one of 2 white wires)

(AMP REM) Blue/White--------White (this is the one in the same harness as the speakers)

Luke

sorry my posting ended up in the middle of the quote, i have a 90 vert w/prem sound, no fader.. not able to locate the brown/orange - wire that all speakers ground to in the trunk amp harness, what am i missing....

[tomwas]

Tomwas, please post year and model, psychic skills are being limited by evil conspiracy, sorry.

Yes, it's a 90 325i vert with premium sound and no fader in the dash, has an aftermarket HU, have managed to get all front spekers working fine, (door tweeters and kick panel speakers), rears have minimal poor sound coming out of them..... and my central locking stopped working??? My car VV

[Pantless Spency]

Trying to do this myself...

I have an 86 325e.

No amp from what I know, fader is 6 wires total, and there are a total of 9 wires leading to the deck not including the antenna wire.


Any idea where I should start?

Fader:



These are labeled L and R not sure if there front or rear though:


This plug is labeled +12v


And these are not labeled:

[Pantless Spency]

Trying to do this myself...

I have an 86 325e.

No amp from what I know, fader is 6 wires total, and there are a total of 9 wires leading to the deck not including the antenna wire.


Any idea where I should start?

Fader:



These are labeled L and R not sure if there front or rear though:


This plug is labeled +12v


And these are not labeled:

so i figured out a few new things.

brown wire is labeled grd for ground, the one next to it (violet/grey) is labeled ign for ignition 12v.

the green red violet red pair is labeled battery on the stock head unit, so i would assume green/red wire is constant 12v, but i have no idea what the other one is.

the white wire with two spade connectors is labeled pwr ant for the power antenna.


and i now know that 4 of the fader wires are each positive wires to speakers, and the L R pairs of wires on the head unit are negative wires for the speakers.

i just cant figure out which negatives go where.

[Pantless Spency]

So I need to unbundle the wires from the fader?

[Pantless Spency]

Bam, the deed is done using the example above. Couldn't be more satisfied.

Thanks.


If anyone has a 6 wire fader in your eta use the example above.

If you need any further help or any other questions feel free to pm me, I'm a changed man with knowledge know :)

[StereoInstaller1]

I'm trying to follow Spyke's method but am unsure about what to do with the Solid yellow and Solid blue wires in the picture below. Does anyone have any insight? My wires match his perfectly otherwise.

It depends on which car and which system you have.

Generally, if you see solid blue and solid yellow, you need to unwrap the harness between the deck and the fader...keep going!

[Bullhead]

Hey Luke I have an 87 just has 4 speakers and no fader. I only see 2 sets of speaker wires and when I test them they just power the fronts. I looked behind the antenna and all I found was the lighting box so I don't think I have an amp either. Are the speaker wires for the back and front under the rear seat? And should I just run some monster wire to the rears, I would like to use the stock setup but I am confused.

[325Eblue]

Alright so I made it thru 15 pages of this monster 30 page thread pretty sure I got a handle on what needs to get done. I however what some advice before going any further , he he the reward is a super clean pic of the inside of a 27 year old stock amp blaupunkt I think these are and it looks like it should be working? idnk , there are no burn marks,no swollen capacitors, nothing melted etc just gave up I guess? SO thanks to a super kewl RV3 dude I have another stock amp coming in the mail and that should be a good temporary band aid while I sort out the next step, just couldnt go without music on the morning drive anymore and I really dont wnat to hear the brake limiter noises telling me to work on that gees whats more important here LOL

the ride is a 1987 325 is she has the front tweeter pods, has a working fader, had a working trunk amp, the PO installed a JVC head unit the rear speakers are orginal the rectangle shape with the raised angled seperated horn. Okay so the JVC head unit was playing clean and loudly with the stock premium system, working fader amp etc. The amp has died I am pretty sure the front tweeter pods were still working because the music was pretty loud, umm cant remember what is in the kick panel under the front dash, hope I am not missing anything for a good diagnosis Paging DR. Luke

So it seems like with an aftermarket head unit already installed, speaker sound good, fader working, and most everything at hand in good shape I have an easier task but here is my question... sorry in advance for this thread clogging size post

looking at the back of the stock amp you can see a group of 4 wires together then a single solo wire , then a group of three wires.... after that it repeats the same grouping in reverse so then a group of 3 wires , then a single solo wire, then a group of 4 wires so 8 per pattern X's 2 patterns 16 total.

Couldnt I find a way to just de-solder these leads and re-solder to a modern input plug to mate to a modern amp producing channels back in the loop to the stock harness and speakers?

I would be upgrading the amp but keeping the circuit in the same closed loop pattern?

Thanks much :grin: S

[Bullhead]

I found the fader, but it only has 6 wires coming from it. So I guess I have to run new speaker wires IIRC the other stuff. Oh well.

[fuzzysux]

vert premium radio

hey Luke,
thank you very much for posting the wire colors and info on amp etc.. i have just finished a complete reworking of my factory premium system with fader on an 88 vert. figured i'd provide some small insight for others and perhaps you can add this info where appropriate in the first few pages (since it can be very hard to find in the 30 page thread).

factory fader - as you said.. does not have enough wires inputs.. my car came with a horribly installed kenwood using only 2 channels which were split then amped.. it sounded aweful!. there is no reason for this fader.. if you are replacing your radio with aftermarket, the radio will have this feature.
64111368498 this is the part # for the appropriate plug to fill in the hole after you throw your fader directly in the garbage.

BEYOND FADER WIRING - Premium stereo - early car.
the factory harness here is pretty long, so you can cut out the fader (all corresponding wires to/from).
on the premium stereo for early cars, you will now be left with only found 4 input wires, yellow/red yellow/black blue/red blue/black and two brown/black. this means there is an amplifier. in the convertible, it is not near the antenna - it is on the back wall on the left.
-pull out trunk felt after removing the 8 or so small black clips
-unplug harness
-clip 2 or 3 wire ties and the end of this harness should not be at about your spare tire making it much easier to work on than climbing into your trunk.

now, for those who might be confused about using the stock wiring to run your rear speakers:

i connected my deck as follows for rear output:
yellow/red wire for left rear positive
yellow/black wire for left rear negative
blue/red wire for right rear positive
blue/black wire for left rear negative

for this to work, you have to then go to the trunk and cut the yellow/red yellow/black blue/red blue/black wires out of the harness plug. i left about 2" on the plug side just in case i ever wanted to use it again.. also cut and strip the black/red black/purple black/white and black/brown wires at the same distance.
now, i connected with simple butt connectors as follows:
yellow/red to black/red
yellow/black to black/purple
blue/red to black/white
blue/black to black/brown

now the rear speakers work! as you mentioned, it is a very short run to the front speakers, so find yourself 3-4 ft of wire and a metal coat hanger. after removing the kick panel, you will find the mid driver - for the sake i was being sure to connect to the right side of these wires, i removed the speaker from the kick pannel.
if you have tweeters, you will immediately notice that there are 3 wires here. + and - running to the speaker and then one wire running from the + side of the driver to the tweeter. since the tweeter and the driver are run in parallel with a "passive crossover" or capacitor, you will also need to run your speaker - from deck to the - of the mid driver AND the tweeter. on my drivers side, the tweeter - was buried in the harnesses where on the passenger side it was much easier to find.
I attached my front front output of my deck as follows:
deck front left output + to Grey/red
deck front left output - to Grey/purple
don't forget your tweeters - you will see a grey/green wire attached to the driver + (don't touch that). now find the grey/yellow wire (that is the tweeter -) and attach that with a splice connector or simply combine grey/purple with grey/yellow in one end of the butt connector (sorry for the over explenation - trying to appeal to all levels of installers).

as soon as you connect this, you will hear both the tweeter and the driver working.

right side is similar:
right deck output + to Grey/white (at the speaker)
right deck output - to Grey/brown (at the speaker)
right tweeters are the same color wires as left (grey/green + still connected to right speaker and grey/yellow somewhere either behind the speaker or in the close harness. connect as left side.


i don't mean to clog up your stuff Luke, i hope you can find some useful information here. this was my first time coming across this stereo configuration in 5 e30's so i assume it isn't very common and i also noticed that this configuration had the least direct information available.

as far as quality, i'm running an alpine iva d-106 and i think that with some high pass filters from the deck set at 80hz, i am impressed with the factory speakers. i will likely now just add 1 or 2 10" subs and leave it be. the factory speakers so far - seem powerful enough for such a small cabin.

[nash89_325i]

Luke - great post and thread! I read, and re-read... and read a bit more. Then I got 'er done. Mine is a very simple case, '89 325i with stock HU, no amp, no premium sound, no fader. Everything I needed to do was readily accessible through the radio slot, I didn't have to open up anything else.

It's all about finding the twisted pairs. I had to unwrap about 8 inches of factory tape... my setup worked just like this post led me to expect apart from the exact color scheme of the pairs. Mine are:

Yellow/Red - LF(+)
Yellow/Brown - LF(-)

Blue/Red - RF(+)
Blue/Brown - RF(-)

Blue/Black - RR(+)
Blue/Brown - RR(-)

Yellow/Black - LR(+)
Yellow/Brown - LR(-)

I did the battery test to verify the pattern, but the schema was pretty apparent based on which pair ran to the right front (all the others run toward the driver's side)

Power connections were exactly as you described, only other wrinkle was that the antenna - white wire that bundles with the antenna lead - is driven by the blue/white wire in my aftermarket unit rather than blue.

Hey - thanks for your help!

Also, I just went with a very basic Kenwood KDC152 - so even after buying some tools I'm in this for way, way less than a C-note!! I liked the "vintage" aspect of the original radio but the volume knob was static-central and had to be jiggled to get any sound at all. Thought maybe speakers were bad but they all work and sound pretty good - and the stock wire is excellent as you said.