Megasquirt 3 vs WAR chip - HP gains on a NA motor -

[nando]

That plug I'm pretty sure is post-1988. My engine harness has the pre-89 (C140) four prong plug which is smaller. I'll ask on WTB. Nice setup with the LC1

the car I stole the ECU side connector from is a 7/87, the LC-1 side is from a a 318is/E36. trust me they are the same, the only difference is they swapped the function of pin 4 and 2. :)

[rcfanatic]

Can the OBC be made to work with either WAR or MS?

[rcfanatic]

That plug I'm pretty sure is post-1988. My engine harness has the pre-89 (C140) four prong plug which is smaller. I'll ask on WTB. Nice setup with the LC1

[nando]

I got one from Levent/guten parts

the 92-95 E36 and M42 O2 plugs are the same, they just swapped pins 2 and 4 for some retarded reason. But the plug would work fine.

this is my LC-1 all hooked up with the stock O2 plug:

[rcfanatic]

the heating element is usually built into the sensor, the WB controller just has to power it on.

Great news. Thanks guys. Anyone have the older style 4-prong O2 plug, so I don't have to hack up my harness?

[nando]

the heating element is usually built into the sensor, the WB controller just has to power it on.

[rcfanatic]

you could just use a stock narrowband for DD'ing, it's not a terrible idea actually, but most people don't want to swap sensors so they just leave in the WB all the time.

Yeah but I don't want to pay an additional $140 or whatever to buy a stock narrowband for when I'm not tuning. Hopefully the SLC has the heating element and it's just not mentioned

[nando]

you could just use a stock narrowband for DD'ing, it's not a terrible idea actually, but most people don't want to swap sensors so they just leave in the WB all the time.

[rcfanatic]

In my opinion, a wide band O2 sensor isn't of much value for tuning unless you have data logging. To tune you need to see the A/F ratio over essentially the entire RPM band. With a means of logging RPM and A/F ratio you can make a "pull" in a single gear from about 2000rpm to the redline, plot the resuts and see where the tune can be improved. So on that basis, the MS has the edge over a WAR chip.

As far as power is concerned, I think an MS system has a slight edge over a WAR chip (or similar). But the results of either are going to be really close. I say that because the MS gives you total control over the behaviour of the engine management syste, which means that you don't have to fight the adaptive learning of the stock DME.

Thanks yeah I definitely wouldn't do it without a data acquisition system. Otherwise as you said it would be pretty much pointless. For this reason I was looking at the 14point7 SLC Pure Plus (formerly JAW, NAW), which comes with it's own datalogging software.

http://www.14point7.com/SLC-Pure-Plus.php

Just not sure if it comes with a built in heating element, thus requiring that I buy a second o2 sensor for dd'ing.

And that's a really interesting point about the conflict between a war chip and the adaptive nature of the stock DME.

[jlevie]

In my opinion, a wide band O2 sensor isn't of much value for tuning unless you have data logging. To tune you need to see the A/F ratio over essentially the entire RPM band. With a means of logging RPM and A/F ratio you can make a "pull" in a single gear from about 2000rpm to the redline, plot the resuts and see where the tune can be improved. So on that basis, the MS has the edge over a WAR chip.

As far as power is concerned, I think an MS system has a slight edge over a WAR chip (or similar). But the results of either are going to be really close. I say that because the MS gives you total control over the behaviour of the engine management syste, which means that you don't have to fight the adaptive learning of the stock DME.

[nando]

no, not with sensors; you need a wideband, an IAT, and a TPS. The IAT and TPS are cheap, a wideband can be as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be. And a wideband is going to be required either way. Still, with a wideband, the MS3, and the sequential board, there's no way it would be $900. Maybe if you bought everything prebuilt.

I leave my LC-1 in all the time, it has it's own heating element. It's powered using the stock O2 sensor relay & wiring.

you could also do MS2 to start with, and upgrade to the MS3 CPU later if you want. I wouldn't really suggest MS1 to anyone unless you're on a serious budget.

[rcfanatic]

So including all the sensors it's only $365? Wow, yeah someone said 8-900 in the previous thread.

On the issue of a wideband o2 sensor, do you guys swap in the wideband when you want to do tuning or leave it in all the time (assuming it also has narrow band output)? The reason I ask is that I've looked at a bunch of them and none of them have mention of a heating element, unless it is just assumed

[nando]

a MS3 kit is $365, not $900 (fully assembed is $540, but the kit only takes a day to put together). the MS3 extender is another $90 and that gives you full sequential fuel and spark plus more I/O than you will know what to do with. There's no "premium" for it either, that's just silly. :p

as far as what vs what, it doesn't really matter, there's not going to be a HP gain between two tuned ECUs, except that you can't run sequential with the war chip so you won't have the benefit of better fuel economy and overall smoothness. No datalogging either, no easy customization, etc. The flip side is it's easier to set up since you just plug it in. So it comes down to having a lot of power over your engine vs being easy enough for a 1st grader.

you already know what I think though..

[DmcL]

ostrich is just the emulator that plugs into the ECU in place of the chip. the software (tunerpro) is what u would want to get to know ur way around. if using tunerpro/tunerpro RT and the ostrich emulator u can find bin definition files for 173 fairly easy on the net, also can find stock 173 bin files (whats on a 173 chip) easily also. there isnt as much of a "help" scene as the miller or MS stuff tho..

a wideband is a must nomatter what route u go and since u have a high comp engine u might run into knock when tuning ignition maps also, i havent run into knock on my low comp 2.5 and ive advanced timing quite a lot, i have advanced even to the point of power dropping with no knock but id say ur high comp motor will be knock limited so u might want to build a det can and hook that up when tuning also so u can listen out for knock.

[digger]

for a stockish car i'd go warchip with MAF before any standalone.......