cam sensor setup plate

[sumoashe]

So I've got a company that will build a distributor block off/cam sensor plate for the m20/m30 engines. What they need to know is what sensor I'd like to use. So for this I look to you guys. Not cause I don't know, but because I'd like to know what everyone wants. I personally lean the honeywell way, but could also do it with a e36/46 sensor or any other. Could even do it with AEM's epm unit.




I know people usually make them slotted to shift the plate/sensor due to adjustable cam gears altering ignition timing. But honestly this seems pointless as anyone running a cam sensor should also have a standalone that will allow full timing adjustment electronically. Let me know what everyone thinks, for sensor choice, or about needing the plate to be slotted for adjustment.

[gath]

Nice! Slotted would give more versatility, thus not limiting people to standalone only. E36/46 would be my choice of sensor. How much would these be running at?

[whodwho]

A couple threads with discussions on this

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67781

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108783

[xAZxE30x]

HALL! What's price looking like? I'm in on this

[nando]

I've got one too. that looks nicely made. :)

to make the sensor plate the way I'd like to, the plate has to raise up the sensor quite a bit from where you show it. looks like that's 1/4" plate?

mine is raised 1/2" from the face of the timing cover, which gives enough room to fit something over the cam gear. I don't know if it will be enough room to bolt something to where the rotor used to, but it might.

slotted isn't *really* necessary. It does help so you don't have a cam sensor trigger at the same time as a crank sensor (not good), but you might be surprised at how simple cam sensor inputs really are. it's not like you need to adjust your cam sensor timing or something - as long as it's within a certain window, which is pretty large, it will work.

[sumoashe]

Right now pricing is going to be well under $100, for the plate and hardware. Somewhere in the range of $50-$75. The more that get made, the cheaper it will be of course.

Slotted: This of course adds a machining step, which means cost. As well as changing the design a bit. Gath, I'm a bit confused on your post. With out a standalone, you can't use a cam sensor on the M20. As the stock motronics can't handle the signal.

Sensor: I like the idea of using the honeywell sensor, but on the same hand understand the ease of using the e46 (m54) sensor. Using one of the stock sensors may help keep your cost down, as it'll plug right into the stock cylinder I.D. plug. Keeping wiring hassles down as well.

As a caveat. For those that are simply running wasted spark and don't plan on upgrading, the plate can be left as is to clean up the engine looks.

[gath]

...

Slotted: This of course adds a machining step, which means cost. As well as changing the design a bit. Gath, I'm a bit confused on your post. With out a standalone, you can't use a cam sensor on the M20. As the stock motronics can't handle the signal.

...

This is the reason that got me thinking about it but I don't think it would be a big deal really coz I think a standalone is a much better way to go..

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showpost.php?p=739497&postcount=100

[sumoashe]

Gath, isn't that the guy that was converting to m5x engine control? I can understand why he slotted it in that case. As he was trying to match the sensor timing to what the stock motronics was looking for.

[LowR3V'in]

I'm in on this unless nando makes his first.
looking to use those sweet sweet ls2 coils... Honeywell sensor pls.
What does the trigger wheel look like? Just one arm or teeth?

[DTMbimmer07]

I'm for this assuming the trigger wheel will fit with my nuke cam gear.

[sumoashe]

DTMbimmer07, it's funny you said something about the nuke cam gear. There's rumors they make a version with a trigger built in. But those to me are rumors as I don't think there's been a pic of one ever.

I wouldn't mind actually seeing what every one thinks of contacting them, seeing if the rumor is true. If so that would be a said and done thing. I would go with the honeywell sensor either way tho. The nuke gear has been around for a while but I can't find alot of reviews of the thing. So you all would have to chime in on that aswell.

Conversely, as of right now the plan is a single tooth trigger wheel. It will bolt to the stock rotor location. Trying to keep the sensor as close to center as possible, the closer to center the quicker the cam sync. This piece will be waterjeted. And allow any cam gear on the market.

Here's the tricky part I'm thinking of, slotting the trigger wheels bolt holes. Instead of the cover's holes. This cuts down on cost, being that it's easier to have the trigger slotted on the waterjet while being cut out. Rather than the added machining steps to do it to the cover. Also keeps a cleaner looking install. I may look into having laser engraving done on the trigger wheel for reference marks for tweeking it.

But I feel the slotting would be overkill. Especially considering how close to center the sensor will be. As any timing adjust made with a cam gear will have a very miner change to trigger position. It's very rare that you see someone tweeking the cam timing more than a degree or two. Let alone five or six.

[nando]

uh.. the distance to the center of the trigger wheel has absolutely nothing to do with how fast it will trigger.

[sumoashe]

Nando, your right. I wrote that out wrong. Mainly the reason for wanting to keep it as close to center is to minimize timing shift do to adjusting cam timing.

[sumoashe]

Ok, update for those interested. More of a question to the group. At this stage we have 3 designs, but need to know what kind of price range people are looking to pay for something like this. As each design has different material costs.

#1. Basic plate as shown above (first post)
This will have the outer bolt holes elongated to allow for adjustment. Will use the
honeywell sensor and come with a trigger wheel that will bolt to the stock
distributor rotor location. Pricing will be right around $100.

#2. This will retain the contoured outside that matches the mounting area. Instead a
separate inner plate will allow for the adjustment. Again, honeywell sensor and
trigger wheel mounted to stock rotor location. Pricing around $200.

#3. This will retain the contours, and instead use a AEM EPM. Basically this is a 24-1
trigger wheel setup. But this unit does both your cam and crank signals, allowing
removing of stock crank trigger. It's cam driven directly, and the plate will come
with a drive adapter. It's a proven unit, used in 4-8 cyl race engines pretty
frequently. Pricing closer to $125. Sensor goes for around $165.

Let me know what everyone thinks.

[nando]

nice!

the 60-2 wheel off the crank is better for high RPM resolution though - a 24 tooth cam sensor only triggers at half the speed, and it also has less than half the number of teeth. that ends up at 1/4 the resolution of a stock 60-2 wheel. all you really need for a cam sensor (assuming no vanos/Vtech) is something to trigger where the intake stroke is for injector timing.