New head, need management.

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  • essi1553
    E30 Addict
    • Apr 2012
    • 440

    #1

    New head, need management.

    So head is ordered, and being completed, got some other "while in in there" stuff too, but im stuck.

    I need some kind of management, markd chip, miller MAF setup +/- the war chip, megasquirt. I'll clarify, I do not have the time or money to mess around on a dyno, nor do I want to even consider that option beyond the scope of a single time if only absolutely necessary. Also I have 0 experience tuning. Never considering boosted option either.

    Markd chip ($230 93 tune): hear rave reviews, cheapest option, reliable and thumbed up by the community (ie real world tested)

    Con's: One tune, encouraged to be a slave to gas prices for performance sake, still keep factory AFM, not knowing its true condition. If I add AFM refurb service - approximately $150 for miller setup with new MAF and intake.

    Miller Pro-street induction kit ($526 kit + 390 for war chip): "upgrades" to MAF setup with performance intake and software for one tune. Increases throttle response, gas mileage, and chip worthy performance.

    War chip option, sounds great in theory 4 tunes available on the fly, ability to fine tune for mods outside of a tuner shop, saves money (bs really) with the ability to run on lower octane. Performance to be had if properly tuned.

    Con's: Expensive, outside of adding the war chip, its really just a MAF setup with a chip similar to markd con's list, except not as finely tuned im sure. Requires more than just plugging in a chip. Cold air intake, always has a risk of sucking up water. Replacing a MAF down the line is $300. I've heard about problems from the get-go: running rich, install issues, considered a generic way of tuning without some key options. Truthfully I feel like the scope of the war chip is beyond what I may ever need/understand, but I don't want to waste money on something that would be better utilized elsewhere. Also trying to be realistic about it, getting a war chip would require dyno time as well to tune it properly, that costs more money. I've been to the war room and its not as informative as I had hoped.

    Megasquirt ($650): Ya know what forget megasquirt, I don't even feel like typing out why this sounds like a nightmare, probably best option, most expensive and best ability, but it requires a genius and dyno time too.


    I guess im asking for experiences besides the mash up of fights I have found in other posts. IS markd the smartest way to go for a car that will be daily driven, or is the value there for an upgrade to a MAF setup with a generic chip from miller. Is the MAF and intake worth the $300 difference?
  • Jaxx_
    E30 Mastermind
    • Dec 2009
    • 1880

    #2
    what cam is in the head? something with some ridiculous lope?
    '84 318i M10B18 147- Safari Beige
    NA: 93whp/90ftlbs, MS2E w/ LC, 2-Step
    Turbo: 221whp/214ftlbs, MS3x flex @ 17psi

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    • essi1553
      E30 Addict
      • Apr 2012
      • 440

      #3
      Im going to take a chance on a 284/272 asymmetrical schrick cam.

      Comment

      • pventojr
        Noobie
        • Jan 2010
        • 18

        #4
        Hi

        Only has to by caution on dis can due to high lift measure distance between valve and piston before run engine I has lucky mine was touching valves again piston (advice don't damage to engine just burn 3 intake valve) my expirience thanks

        Comment

        • ZenitramNaes
          Advanced Member
          • Jul 2012
          • 150

          #5
          I bet you'd be surprised on how easy Mega squirt can be. Don' get me wrong, a lot of people would have trouble with it, but it doesn't take a genius.

          '89 535i/5 Holset WH1E turbo
          Follow my m106 megasquirt build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...Squirt-content

          Comment

          • Paradox
            Grease Monkey
            • Jul 2010
            • 337

            #6
            There is another option. You can use Tuner Pro and Ostrich emulator. Probably around $250 for the set up. There is a learning curve but that's normal with anything other then a ready to go chip.

            Comment

            • essi1553
              E30 Addict
              • Apr 2012
              • 440

              #7
              Originally posted by Paradox
              There is another option. You can use Tuner Pro and Ostrich emulator. Probably around $250 for the set up. There is a learning curve but that's normal with anything other then a ready to go chip.
              Although this seems like a great option, the posts ive read compare it to megasquirts complexity. I really rather not get into splicing MANY wires, and worrying about if I tuned the car correctly. I'm, looking into all the suggestions so far, thanks further input is also appreciated.

              Comment

              • Paradox
                Grease Monkey
                • Jul 2010
                • 337

                #8
                There is no splicing, you just plug the emulator where your chip would go and then plug the emulator to your lap top.




                But I have a feeling all you want to do is plug and play - which the only option would be a custom chip. Contact Mark D at EAT http://www3.sympatico.ca/mdsylva/contact.htm
                He can most likely make a custom chip to whatever octane and cam you desire. Which is what I think you want.

                Comment

                • essi1553
                  E30 Addict
                  • Apr 2012
                  • 440

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Paradox
                  There is no splicing, you just plug the emulator where your chip would go and then plug the emulator to your lap top.




                  But I have a feeling all you want to do is plug and play - which the only option would be a custom chip. Contact Mark D at EAT http://www3.sympatico.ca/mdsylva/contact.htm
                  He can most likely make a custom chip to whatever octane and cam you desire. Which is what I think you want.
                  This seems very similar to the war the war chip, but apparently with closer to megasquirt's capabilities. How do you know the values you have chosen are what is best for the car? Dyno runs, and having a professional tune it?

                  Comment

                  • Paradox
                    Grease Monkey
                    • Jul 2010
                    • 337

                    #10
                    Its basically unlocking the stock DME. Which is quite robust and well made. The beauty of the set up is you are just rewriting the files to suite your needs, but that's a double edge sword. Bosch/BMW engineers probably spent hours upon hours honing these files to be perfect for every condition they could think of. Simply changing numbers in the Maps will most likely improve one aspect but also develop problems with other situations, such as cold start behavior.

                    Here's video of someone tuning a BMW


                    Here's a link to the tuner pro Forum:


                    The guys at the forum would know more about it then me. I considered it when I first started thinking about going turbo, but I lucked out and found an old MS1 for $100 so I went that way instead.

                    Tuner Pro is a program that helps you see the information in the chip.
                    The program is free to download: http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadApp.htm
                    But go ahead and by it from the Author for $39.00, I'm assuming there are options in the paid version that make it worthwhile.

                    You will need to load a Bin Definition file to "unlock" the information.
                    You can find one for the 173 DME here: http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadBinDefs.htm

                    Once loaded into the Tunerpro you can take a look at the tables and adjust them on the fly with the Ostrich Emulator, which you can purchase here:
                    The newest breed of emulator has evolved!   Note: When using with 24-pin GM applications, you MUST use a Socket Booster! (available separately). Note2: If you'd like to have a custom length cable instead of the standard 18" (for example, 2" or 6" for noise or latency-sensitive applications such as VW or Nissan), please


                    That's the sum of my knowledge on Tuner Pro.
                    Good Luck!

                    Comment

                    • FLG
                      No R3VLimiter
                      • Sep 2011
                      • 3165

                      #11
                      Bottom line.

                      What do you want to do with the car? Will it just be a daily? Do you ever plan on going forced induction?

                      If the car will forever be a daily and you don't care about leaving some power on the table, also your not going to be boosting anytime soon, go mark and call it done.

                      If you want to make sure your properly using your upgrades to the fullest, go ms and get her tuned. You'd be surprised how simple ms is not to mention how it makes diagnosing issues much easier.



                      Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
                      -Build http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=295277

                      Comment

                      • essi1553
                        E30 Addict
                        • Apr 2012
                        • 440

                        #12
                        First Thank Paradox for explaining all of it, im traversing the forums now looking for specific articles that would be relevant to my situation. Awesome setup and cost, with the ability to switch between tunes. I am thrilled to hear of this option, still seems over-whelming though. I'm looking into professionals who can help.

                        Bottom line FLG, it's always going to be a daily, but im going to own this car for a very long time, and I AIM for a NA M20 with itb's. Still in research mode, but I love that sound. (truth is I hate installing the intake manifold, and it looks like a sea shell)

                        As of now light headwork and the cam listed above, all new hardware. So far everything but suspension and headwork is stock. Miller for practicality, MarkD for cost. Similar performance, I'd assume ostrich 2.0 would be $$ to tune. Im checking in on that today...

                        Comment

                        • essi1553
                          E30 Addict
                          • Apr 2012
                          • 440

                          #13
                          Looking at roughly 400-600 for tuning

                          <--- Not happy

                          So Miller prostreet / chip

                          Comment

                          • nando
                            Moderator
                            • Nov 2003
                            • 34827

                            #14
                            if you don't want to tune it properly, then don't modify it. an off the shelf chip is not magic..
                            Build thread

                            Bimmerlabs

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