A turbo set up for $250?

[bam2002]

Hello
I have already spent hours on the FAQ and stickys on how to Turbo a M20.
I enjoyed this thread on the other site.., http://www.e30tech.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=23
There is a great deal of useful information but I have a very unique situation.

We are now getting our Butts kicked in the Chumpcar - Lemons races. It seems that all the other teams are getting creative and we need more power.

So we need to be able to put a turbo on the car for about $250. For those of you that dont know the Chumpcar series you only have a $500 car.
I have read that the 524 TD manifold can be fitted to work. I know Ebay also has manifolds for sale.
I have a Volvo junkyard turbo.. We only will be running 6lbs of boost.
Also I have a set of the Mustang injectors and the correct ECU for this set up.

There also is the fact of Durability. The races are from 7 to 24 hours so the car needs to be able to run that long. We do take the engine out every 4 races or 1 year and go through it. IE bearings, rings, etc.

I know I am asking for some thinking outside the box, or it may be impossible. That is why I am asking..

Constructive Ideas welcome.

[The Humjet]

Nice little challenge you got there. Best thing you can do is spend time at the junkyard and get yourself a 324td manifold. Volvo t3 turbo like you'be already mentioned and get reading this thread.

http://e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98922

Because tuning is gonna be you major factor to keep this car going through these endurance races. Your only option you can do is tinker with the stock motronic because a standalone is gonna be out of your budget. Also if you know how to weld then the rest is up to you finding cheap steel to make up all your charge pipes.
Good luck.

[Jalves619]

Maybe a homemade manifold adapter. I've seen somebody Oxy/acetylene cut some flanges and clean them up with a grinder.It's time consuming and probably wont end up very pretty, but for that budget....

[blueapplesoda]

you need reliability with low cost....$40 ebay turbo chip, 12:1 FMU (replace diaphragm with quality parts), 255lph+ fuel pump, block O-rings, metric blues, turbo from yard (water cooled hopefully for added reliability as those are usually in better condition), flipped stock manifold adapter

make everything yourself and it will be cheap.

Derek
DedericMS

[Zacm829]

On 6lbs I think an O-ringed block and upgraded fuel pump are overkill, especially with your budget. A good condition stock gasket and pump work well at 10lbs.

Manifold adapter is a great idea to save money. Things add up quick though (BOV/Waste gate/not to mention an intercooler for better reliability). I think it would be possible, but creative is a very key word here.

Nonetheless, the project sounds fun. Good luck :up:

[ak-]

Right, make most of the things yourself like adapter and piping.
You technically don't even need an intercooler for 6lbs or a new pump.

[bam2002]

Thanks for the information.

I was reading up on O ring - blocking and that may be more than I want to do.
But good head bolts etc are a must.

We do have access to a full machine shop. One of the drivers runs a shop that specializes in Aircooled VWs. so we have welders, milling machines etc.

Ill work on building an intake, I have seen other cars that make the intake higher than normal so that 1/2 the turbo is sticking through the hood. I guess it really helps with cooling,
Any thoughts on this? I cant see any negative impact by doing this other than Rain. THe airfilter could be run out in the open or we can use a tube to get it back under the hood if there is chance of rain.


Then they also run a small intercooler either parallel to the hood and use a hood scoop to run the air or behind a headlight. 90% of the races we dont need lights. This way everything is easy to get to IE trouble shooting.
Plus we run a pretty big oil cooler up front below the bumper where most intercoolers are located.

Also there are some great threads on Chips for turbos, I see that there is mention of Fuel regulators, Is this something needed on a low boost engine?

We have a fuel cell in the car with a Fuel pump from Summit racing. Its rated 10? lbs? over stock. we did this when we added the bigger injectors.

Lastly I also have a head with a 272 cam, will it be beneficial to use the cam?

[nando]

o-ringing is pretty easy (rent the "iskey" tool), and fairly cheap - it will definitely help with reliability.

a cam will work fine with the turbo - higher N/A VE = higher turbo VE. it will make more power with less boost (a good thing from a reliability standpoint).

any EFI fuel pump makes way more pressure than the engine uses (approximately double). The question is, how much volume is it flowing at a given pressure? More efficient pumps create more volume at a given pressure. but on a $250 turbo build, even a stock pump is probably enough - you aren't going to be making 500whp. :p

most of the ebay chips just retard timing. that's useful - but they can't really account for fuel & boost. For your budget the only choice is a RRFPR. You really need a wideband to tune it, maybe one of the hand built wideband controllers would be a good idea, but your budget is so tight you might be left with reading the plugs and guessing. you could also build a narrowband gauge but it won't be terribly useful.

on such a budget turbo build though, having a wideband is pretty critical for tuning. the computer isn't going to have any idea what's going on, the only way to adjust it safely is going to be human intervention..

[Clark954]

Thanks for the information.

I was reading up on O ring - blocking and that may be more than I want to do.
But good head bolts etc are a must.

We do have access to a full machine shop. One of the drivers runs a shop that specializes in Aircooled VWs. so we have welders, milling machines etc.

Ill work on building an intake, I have seen other cars that make the intake higher than normal so that 1/2 the turbo is sticking through the hood. I guess it really helps with cooling,
Any thoughts on this? I cant see any negative impact by doing this other than Rain. THe airfilter could be run out in the open or we can use a tube to get it back under the hood if there is chance of rain.


Then they also run a small intercooler either parallel to the hood and use a hood scoop to run the air or behind a headlight. 90% of the races we dont need lights. This way everything is easy to get to IE trouble shooting.
Plus we run a pretty big oil cooler up front below the bumper where most intercoolers are located.

Also there are some great threads on Chips for turbos, I see that there is mention of Fuel regulators, Is this something needed on a low boost engine?

We have a fuel cell in the car with a Fuel pump from Summit racing. Its rated 10? lbs? over stock. we did this when we added the bigger injectors.

Lastly I also have a head with a 272 cam, will it be beneficial to use the cam?

it might sound silly but most of the STS turbo setups are in the bumper, and with it being all the way back there it doesnt normally need a cooler, you can probably pick up tubing pretty cheap, and you could probably just weld the damn thing to the exhaust and then just run a pipe to your Intake manifold.

if your going under the hood, make some vents to vent out as much air as possible, you know give a 5 year old a grinder and tell him to have fun.

im guna subscribe to this thread.... post pics :hitler:

[Clark954]

http://ststurbo.com/

[Gary Horneck]

Try this.

http://dirte30.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html

I am getting ready to try it. I have 3 turbo's sitting here from my Volvo 740 and just need a small boost for AutoX runs. Flipped stock manifold with a machined adapter plate is all they did.

[nando]

yeah, to be honest stock manifolds modified with an adapter plate are going to be far better from a performance standpoint than the shitty TD manifold, and maybe even cheaper.

[bam2002]

Here is our last race at Road Atlanta. this car was built 4 years ago for the 24 hours of Lemons races. It has had a rough life.









And this is what happens when you overheat an engine untill its burning a quart of oil an hour. But you run it any way to finish the race. We made it 13.75 hours of a 14 hour race..


Thus the rebuild and Turbo questions.

[dinanm3atl]

You are running an M20B25 correct? Have you thought about additional weight reduction, fresh B25 and driver skill? I ask because Ronald's Racers was running in the top 3 and had a top 3 on Saturday at Road Atlanta until a spin(admitted bone headed move trying to keep up with BioHazard) and then sped on pit lane. That car had a podium.

M20B25 has plenty of power I think to podium and potentially win. If you really think more power will lower your lap times an m50 would be a better solution than a turbo. Boost immediately sets you up for more failures. M20 is very reliable. M20 turbo can be reliable as a DD or a fun weekend toy but pounding on it for 14 hours? You might want to rethink that when to stay in budget(what is your AIV now?) you need junkyard turbos.

Some other ideas. What brakes are you using? What kind of lap times were you turning at Road Atlanta? Suspension condition? What tires? Etc.

To give you an idea of what I am getting at I would routinely sit on the bumpers of E46 M3s at Road Atlanta down the back straight. I carried more speed through Turn 7 and used less brakes and just sat with them. You can do the same on your E30 compared to the rest of competition.

[akorcovelos]

Im with dinnanm3atl, no way a $250 turbo setup is going to last 7-12 hours of hard lapping. Honestly, running only 6lbs is not going to return on investment of time to build/fab anyway, you need more speed through the corners, not the straights.