Turbo build - M20 or M50/52......WHY??

[IronFreak]

Going into this may very well show my noobie status but I think its a relevant question.

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I'm not new to the car scene and have built a turbo mustang but have fallen in love with the e30. Coming from a group of guys that strictly do domestic builds I've become somewhat of a heretic ever since my new 325iS rolled into the garage.

I've done a good amount of research between N/A and FI. I've come to the conclusion that I cant see major differences between adding boost to these motors.

Can I get some intelligent responses on why it makes sense to pull an m20, change to wiring and install a m52, then boost it. You still have to go through each motor internally, I've seen cars with each motor make relatively the same numbers. Maybe I'm missing something.

I'm not discounting the idea or anyone that has done it, I just want to know the advantages vs. disadvantages. I'm a Project manager so when I look at any project I make a scope, lay out the steps I plan on taking before I do anything. Before I split open the M20 and prep for boost, I want to know if it makes sense to just prep a m52 instead.

Thanks guys.

[jaywood]

No need to go into the internals in the engine if the engine is healthy. Check out kamotors build on here, he's pushing ~400 on his mostly stock m20

M50/2 turbo is capable of a lot of power. Sometimes they are cheaper to buy then an m20. They are also 24v

[einstein57]

Advantages of m5X are small in stock form, quieter motor, no timing belt to change, better gas mileage. Disadvantages are turbo parts like manifold and engine management cost more, harder to tune, heads are prone to cracking, added weight, cost more to service, and IMHO don't sound as nice as an m20. All that being said i really like the m54b30 engines.

m20 turbo budget 2-3k

m50swap and turbo-5-7k

[Exodus_2pt0]

Honestly if you can attain 400hp with a relatively stock (boosted) m20
and retain half the valve train, why swap? Dohc is great, but it comes at a cost.

[mbonanni]

This should be between m20 and m30...

[IronFreak]

This is awesome, confirms a lot of what I've been looking into. I'm pulling the motor right now to have the head pressure checked, decked and a valve job. I think I'll try and get my hands on a groove-o-matic while its apart. I did a compression and leak-down and I had some awesome numbers. I really don;t know if I need 400hp in that car. Many people throw those numbers around not even knowing what that power feels like..........its AWESOME and expensive. Seriously though, I have been in and drove several HIGH hp vehicles, for a street car 400hp in this is just crazy hahaha.

[einstein57]

Its amazing how quickly you get used to 300whp in a 2700lb car. But then again i do daily a GSXR

[Exodus_2pt0]

Its amazing how quickly you get used to 300whp in a 2700lb car. But then again i do daily a GSXR

I don't understand the urge to always go faster (anymore). Just because you get used to it doesn't mean it isn't a blast. Guess that's also why I never felt a need to "upgrade" past a 600. Balance is everything, no matter what you're into.

[IronFreak]

I don't understand the urge to always go faster (anymore). Just because you get used to it doesn't mean it isn't a blast. Guess that's also why I never felt a need to "upgrade" past a 600. Balance is everything, no matter what you're into.

Agreed.

The M20 was engineered REALLY well, if you have read any of forcedfirebird threads on the flow bench work they did, you literally can't improve the flow and performance they come stock. When its all said and done, if you want more power, FI makes more sense. but the car needs to be balanced, suspension, handling, steering. All those go into making a fun car to drive. And if you get board with 300hp in a 2700lbs car. try weight reduction, its cheaper and it'll give you a whole new realm to play in. I had a 1984 S-10 with a 383 stroker, gutted with a bucket seat and roll bar, that was fun!

Do you guys know if blueapplesoda is still selling his pnp kits for the m20. read about them, looks like a great deal. But some people have said he's out of the country.

[reelizmpro]

My turbo car makes 265rwhp on 11 PSI with M20B25 and megasquirt with a street tune. Which is roughtly 310HP at the crank. This is plenty of power for a street E30 IMO. Enough to get you in trouble but there's still plenty of room for more power if I wanted. Either way you look at it, it costs money to go fast. Whether it be gas, parts, maintenance, tires or tickets. It's good to have balance. I hardly use that much power as is, but it's nice to have it if I want it.

These days one can turbo their M20 cheaper than ever when it wasn't possible before. M50/S50 swaps are great and cheaper than ever as well and would be the route to go if you want to keep it naturally aspirated. If you want to stay NA with around 260-280HP then a S50 swap is for you. If you can turbocharge the M20, this makes the most sense HP per dollar and it's good for 300+HP. If you want 500+HP, then swap + turbo is the way to go. I'm talking just lowering compression and turbocharging...obviously you can build a turbo engine to make more power.

[FLG]

Ive got 330 whp at 13-14 psi (shooting for 20 psi and over 400 but fuel pump crapped out). You get used to it fairly quickly....i drive it around now and am like "eh its fast". Have a friend come in the car and do a pull or two and there shitting bricks.

I love my Turbo m20.

Stock internals (all new rings, seals, rocker arms...etc) ARP studs and stock hg. Get a good proper tune and you wont blow anything up.

http://youtu.be/qPabVTCUxkI

[IronFreak]

Ive got 330 whp at 13-14 psi (shooting for 20 psi and over 400 but fuel pump crapped out). You get used to it fairly quickly....i drive it around now and am like "eh its fast". Have a friend come in the car and do a pull or two and there shitting bricks.

I love my Turbo m20.

Stock internals (all new rings, seals, rocker arms...etc) ARP studs and stock hg. Get a good proper tune and you wont blow anything up.

http://youtu.be/qPabVTCUxkI

nice, did you o-ring the block or head? I suppose a blown HG is better then a melted piston haha.

What do you run for an ECU? I just posted a thread over in the megasquirt section. FI isnt new to me, but I did it with blow-thru carb systems. trying to find a good baseline to teach myself all the megasquirt lingo so i'm not in the dark when I read threads haha.

[FLG]

No o ring. Just stock hg and Arp studs and Megasquirt ecu

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[kamotors]

power gets old quick. I'm already wanting more. I made 400whp at 19 psi still waiting to see what I make at my current 20-21psi. A good set of tires and suspension and 400 whp can still feel balanced and drivable. Not much of a cost difference from a 300whp setup to a 400whp setup if you have head studs. Just make sure your injectors are up to the task, crank up the boost, check timing and then burnout away.

M20 FTW

[einstein57]

I don't understand the urge to always go faster (anymore). Just because you get used to it doesn't mean it isn't a blast. Guess that's also why I never felt a need to "upgrade" past a 600. Balance is everything, no matter what you're into.

I have a 600. I've had a GSXR 750 and an R1 in the past but went back to a 600 for fuel economy and ease of use in the canyons.

Agreed.

The M20 was engineered REALLY well, if you have read any of forcedfirebird threads on the flow bench work they did, you literally can't improve the flow and performance they come stock. When its all said and done, if you want more power, FI makes more sense. but the car needs to be balanced, suspension, handling, steering. All those go into making a fun car to drive. And if you get board with 300hp in a 2700lbs car. try weight reduction, its cheaper and it'll give you a whole new realm to play in. I had a 1984 S-10 with a 383 stroker, gutted with a bucket seat and roll bar, that was fun!

Do you guys know if blueapplesoda is still selling his pnp kits for the m20. read about them, looks like a great deal. But some people have said he's out of the country.

I'm planning on building a mid engine tube frame exo car for my senior design project. My goal is 1000lbs with either a turbo BMW k100 motor (reverse trike) or an Audi 1.8t. I'm leaning toward the BMW and then i'll boost it later.