Opinions on my M52 turbo idea

[frankie591]

Backround on the car:

I currently have an m52 obd1 swap and am itching to do a turbo project once I save up a budget. The car will be used primarily driving to and at the track, and occasionally driving around town. My goal is around 350whp on 12psi or less.

After some research I am thinking of a borg warner s200sx 7670 T4 twin scroll, using a .83 AR housing. I think this should get me building boost really early, but should be large enough to no choke out at high rpm's. Any opinions on this turbo and how it will work for my application? Any suggestions on other turbos that would work well? Keep in mind that I am more concerned with responsiveness than I am with max power.

http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/borgwarner-airwerks/borgwarner-s200sx-7670-turbo.html

^turbo I was thinking of^

As for my motor build plans, I want to keep the motor cheap. I figure it will be best for me to run the motor stock with ARP studs and an oem head gasket, and if I should have motor problems it will be cheap and easy to swap in another m52 long block. I know that the m52 can handle up to 18psi on the stock hg non o-ringed, but what do you guys think about running 12psi at the track on a setup like this? Am I crazy to think that the head gasket will not fail?

That's all the real concerns I have at this point, and any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

-Andrew

[Good & Tight]

Andrew, in order to run 12psi safely you will have to lower the compression by either thicker headgasket or low compression pistons.

Safe limit on a stock compression M52 with stock headgasket is 8-9psi.

That T4 is rated for 380-500+hp well beyond your hp goals, it will deff not be responsive down low. I would suggest looking for a smaller T3 size turbo, a simple Garrett 60-1 with a .63 back housing will give you great response, build boost at 2500rpm and pull all the way to redline.

An ideal setup would be M52, .140" Cometic headgasket, ARP studs, S52 cams, 60-1 garret, T3 top mount (which I have in stock) 44mm wastegate, 3" down pipe and stock ECU chip tune and your good for a reliable 400+rwhp all day long on pump gas at 15psi. The S52 cams are worth 25+hp.

[frankie591]

Ya I was thinking of doing the standard .140 mls at first, but I don't want to have to redo it after 10k if it starts leaking as it seems most do. I have s52 cams already, and I plan on building a ms3 for engine management.

http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/borgwarner-airwerks/borgwarner-s200-turbo.html

Would that be a better choice? T3 twinscroll and I can get a .76 AR housing.

[MF DOOM]

What about the EFR series? if youre going with a new garret you might as well spend the cash on one.

http://www.full-race.com/store/efr-t...0-turbo-2.html

You cant go wrong with Borg Warner though.

[Good & Tight]

Most MLS failures are due to improper prep and install.
That T3 looks like a good size, all you need is a good twin scroll manifold with twin wastegates and your set.
All of the twinscroll setups I've made for E36's are for 700+hp built motors using larger turbos like GT4094R.
I still think for your HP goal the twin scroll is over kill for a stock engine, but it will look cool for sure.

Here's a setup I made for an E36 with twin 38mm wastegates for a Precision 6466.

[frankie591]

Well my main goal is response, and split pulse will get me to boost a few hundred rpm earlier so it makes sense to me. I plan on running a single wastegate and keeping the pulses split right up to the wastegate so that should keep the manifold fairly simple.

MF DOOM: I really like the EFR's (I was originally looking into them) but unless you get a huge turbo, they don't come with the integrated features that make those turbos awesome.

As for the MLS I have heard that even if you have the block and head machined to the correct RA value that they still often start leaking. Would an o-ringed block allow me to run 12psi at stock compression ratio and stock hg?

[MF DOOM]

Most MLS failures are due to improper prep and install.

This. People install them wrong, they fail, then they tell everyone not to use them. I have one on my m42 and have never had an issue. Put some on my step dads twin turbo 383. No issues. We use them in my uncles 442 olds. SBC with a 90mm turbo running 26psi with no issues. Id go with MLS before o-rings but that just my


I agree that you should be good with a single scroll s200sx. The extended tip technology is pretty impressive. Ive got a s256 with a .64 turbine ar going on my car. If you havent started your build by then i can let you know what spool is like. Theres quite the difference between an m52 and a m42 but itll give you an idea of how the BW performs


Otis, great job on that manifold btw.

[Good & Tight]

This. People install them wrong, they fail, then they tell everyone not to use them. I have one on my m42 and have never had an issue. Put some on my step dads twin turbo 383. No issues. We use them in my uncles 442 olds. SBC with a 90mm turbo running 26psi with no issues. Id go with MLS before o-rings but that just my


I agree that you should be good with a single scroll s200sx. The extended tip technology is pretty impressive. Ive got a s256 with a .64 turbine ar going on my car. If you havent started your build by then i can let you know what spool is like. Theres quite the difference between an m52 and a m42 but itll give you an idea of how the BW performs


Otis, great job on that manifold btw.

Thanks. I'm running a BW S300 91/79 .91ar twin scroll housing and spool is very impressive for such a large turbo. It's on a twin scroll mani w/twin 38mm gates. Granted it's on 3.4 M30 stock compression engine with a Cometic and has seen 26psi quite a few times..!!!

[wenbeaver89]

Good n tights manifolds are definitely worth your money! I just upgraded to one from an ebay one and its a world of difference! 7lbs of boost by 3100rpms on a m50tu with a gt35r. Used to be like 4500+!!!

Definitely do the .140 mls and arp's right away. I didn't and i wish i had!

[Good & Tight]

Good n tights manifolds are definitely worth your money! I just upgraded to one from an ebay one and its a world of difference! 7lbs of boost by 3100rpms on a m50tu with a gt35r. Used to be like 4500+!!!

Definitely do the .140 mls and arp's right away. I didn't and i wish i had!

Thanks Ben, nice to hear the difference in spool up time, they are the best manifold you can buy. Many of them are on drag cars running 10sec.
Have you dynoed your car?

[chondamx]

Would an o-ringed block allow me to run 12psi at stock compression ratio and stock hg?

This is really what i'm wondering as it is exactly what I plan on doing with this:

M52, SS oringed, stock head gasket, .60/.63 TO4E, Otis' manifold, shooting for 12psi. Thoughts?

[wenbeaver89]

Thanks Ben, nice to hear the difference in spool up time, they are the best manifold you can buy. Many of them are on drag cars running 10sec.
Have you dynoed your car?

Haven't dyno'd the car yet as i'm just running on a remote tune for the summer. I'm planning on doing the headgasket and arp's this winter then run around 12psi with a good dyno tune. I would guess i'm somewhere between 290-310 whp but thats just a guess!

I ran it at the track the other night but it was a little hot and my best was 13.3 @ 102. Hoping to break into the 12's next week on 8 lbs. of boost!

[E30DriftMissile]

what do you plan on using for tuning man? Ive got a very similar setup going on but im hitting a wall on budgets for the tune.....

[frankie591]

I want to do ms3 and have it tuned locally

[E30DriftMissile]

oh...thats right....your OBDI. Im stuck in OBDII Limbo here, how hard was it to convert to obdI?