Quick questions about ARP's and MLS gaskets

[Pinepig]

www.vacmotorsports.com

Made by Cometic.

10 bucks cheaper at Ireland Engineering.

[fiftytakedowns]

I wisH I wasnt short on cash, but I really dont think I should push 10lbs without a metal headgasket

[Pinepig]

I wisH I wasnt short on cash, but I really dont think I should push 10lbs without a metal headgasket

10#s is fine on a stock head gasket as long as you can control spark. My stock HG didn't let go till 15psi.

[nando]

o-ring the block, use a factory gasket (not aftermarket crap), use studs, done.

Studs don't "stretch" when you assemble them, so they clamp better. If you "O-Ring" the head, a stock gasket will do amazing amounts of bewst on most motors. Combine that with studs, and I would guess an otherwise stock M10 could handle a boatload of boost.

actually, it doesn't really work that way. TTY or "stretch" bolts clamp just fine, they are actually designed to stretch at their highest yeild strength and clamping force. They also don't need retorqued, unlike studs. But you can't reuse them, and they weren't designed for the cylinder pressures seen in a turbo engine.

[1973bimmer]

studs do not need to be replaced the use the same arp head studs on top fuel dragcars running 40psi and 9000 hp... i think you will be ok. the head gasket though. with a mls gasket the head and block need to be machined to mirror finish or they will leak dont try to use a wizz wheel do it it wont work.

[fiftytakedowns]

studs do not need to be replaced the use the same arp head studs on top fuel dragcars running 40psi and 9000 hp... i think you will be ok. the head gasket though. with a mls gasket the head and block need to be machined to mirror finish or they will leak dont try to use a wizz wheel do it it wont work.

With aRP head studs and a stock gasket I should be alright though? no need to get it machined?

[nando]

well it needs to be flat.. but you don't need a mirror finish, no.

[fiftytakedowns]

Anyone heard of Victor reinz head gaskets, and the MEtric Blue Head bolts?

For 30 bucks the Grade 12 bolts look quite appealing, and apparently they were pretty big before the ARP's

Obviously im on a pretty big budget, And I want to make the best decisions based upon the situations I'm in.

[nando]

VR headgaskets are cheap junk

goetze or directly from BMW. Elring in a pinch. But never VR.

[fiftytakedowns]

VR headgaskets are cheap junk

goetze or directly from BMW. Elring in a pinch. But never VR.

Arent there some cutting ring headgaskets that are pretty good price for what they are worth?

[fiftytakedowns]

What does it usually cost to get the Head o-ringed?

That MLS gasket on the stock bolts is sounding Awful nice. for 25 lbs

What is the most cost effective way to go one of these routes?

could you put in ARPS wihtout removing the head?

[milotrain]

What does it usually cost to get the Head o-ringed?

That MLS gasket on the stock bolts is sounding Awful nice. for 25 lbs

What is the most cost effective way to go one of these routes?

could you put in ARPS wihtout removing the head?

You o-ring the block not the head. You can't put in Studs without removing the head. If you do use studs you have to clear every last trace of oil and crud from your head bolt holes before you install them. Why not just go OEM bolts and Goetze gasket and if it blows by upgrade it later? o-ringing is not a trivial matter, many machine shops don't do it. A user on the bimmerforums E21 forum Charbel o-rings his blocks and runs copper plate gaskets but it's neither cheap nor simple.

I think your upgrade path would be cheapest in this method OEM -> ARP and OEM HG -> ARP and MLS. If you can't keep it sealed at the last step then oring and copper plate is the way to go.

[nando]

you can o-ring the head too. It's just better to do the block.

[milotrain]

Anyone heard of Victor reinz head gaskets, and the MEtric Blue Head bolts?

For 30 bucks the Grade 12 bolts look quite appealing, and apparently they were pretty big before the ARP's

Obviously im on a pretty big budget, And I want to make the best decisions based upon the situations I'm in.

I just noticed this. There really isn't any such thing as Grade 12, and certainly not in the metric fastener world. Grades are an SAE unit, specifically used in imperial western unit fasteners. Metric fasteners are described by ISO class, Class 12.9, Class 10.9, and Class 8.8. The classes are not direct translations to any "Grade" although generally anything of a Class 12.9 or 10.9 is similar to Grade 8 and Class 8.8 is similar to Grade 5. If the material is above Grade 8 specifications (180m psi tensile) will either be graded by the mil spec: MS, AN, and NAS; or by the actual tensile strength tested to as in the case of ARP studs.

If you are interested in fastener technology you should read Carroll Smiths excellent book on the subject.


EDIT: After further research it seems that Metric Blue hardware is indeed graded on ISO class and not SAE grade, and is typically rated (in the sizes that you'd use for head bolts) as 10.9 or 12.9.

[Chabs]

My m10 has been turbo'd for 40 000 km's running on 13psi the entire time, and the only mod is a head gasket. I've done some reading about them and as far as I can tell they're bulletproof. You'd be safer for sure with the head studs and gasket... but I don't think its necessary.