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2002 m10 vs 318i m10

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    2002 m10 vs 318i m10

    Random questions here, but I am in the process of putting an engine into a 2002 shell.

    So is the m10 engine from the 318i much different than the 2002? The engine may get injected either from a tii kugelfischer pump or if there is a problem with that, possibly 318i bits.

    How much is interchangeable? Are only the blocks the same?

    Also I may need a starter, would the 318i starter work, or is it different due to the flywheel and transmission?


    Thanks.
    318iS Track Rat :nice: www.drive4corners.com
    '86 325iX 3.1 Stroker Turbo '86 S38B36 325

    No one makes this car anymore. The government won't allow them, normal people won't buy them. So it's up to us: the freaks, the weirdos, the informed. To buy them, to appreciate them, and most importantly, to drive them.

    #2
    The 1.8L 318 M10 is a castrated version of the glorious 2.0L M10 out of the 2002. Pistons should match cylinder head type (some low-compression pistons are interchangeable with diff. head types, never optimal though).

    Kuglefischers are extremely temperamental in that they operate at extremely high pressures and are entirely mechanical. Injectors will need to be flow tested and rebuilt (a single new injector is upwards of $750 list price now). A very spendy route.

    If your starting from scratch I'd go with the 318i injection setup with MS (02again.com) on the 2.0L engine. This combo has proven itself admirably with a similarly prepped car taking the FSP Nat. Championship for the last couple years.
    ADAMS Autosport

    Comment


      #3
      the 318i m10 is lighter and have different mounting bosses on the passenger side block. Some older 318im10 blocks may have those, but going from 2002 engine in 318 you have to modify that side.


      other than that, pretty much everything is interchangeable. just have to make sure your combination is right (head/piston combo). think ac mounting maybe different. its been a while since i had both engines in my possession but those stick out.
      ?

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks guys, great info here. I am very impressed with the kugelfischer pump, when I drove a tii for a year I just assumed it was some sort of black magic that was the same as the fuel injection in the e30.

        Not until recently did I realize the 'mechanical' term in Kugelfischer Mechanical Fuel Injection. The pump is quite advanced and impressive. I am sad to see it phased out for modern electronic fuel injection. Maybe I am weird, but it intrigues me more than an electronic adjustment on a computer. Here is a write up I found on it: http://www.jc42.dial.pipex.com/alpin...escription.htm

        No wonder it is so expensive.

        I may have to do the 318i swap if the pump doesn't work. So could I just swap the head/cam/ maybe a crank vibration dampener and use the 318i computer? I guess compression would be off and spark timing possibly too.
        318iS Track Rat :nice: www.drive4corners.com
        '86 325iX 3.1 Stroker Turbo '86 S38B36 325

        No one makes this car anymore. The government won't allow them, normal people won't buy them. So it's up to us: the freaks, the weirdos, the informed. To buy them, to appreciate them, and most importantly, to drive them.

        Comment


          #5
          If you don't want to go with megasquirt, this is a good option:



          The lh2.2 systems can be chipped, use a maf rather than afm, and run independantly from the spark system. This won't even require buying a crank trigger if you use the stock ignition. It's a cheap alternative to MS. You won't find an off the shelf tune for a 2002, but it's easy to buy a chip emulator and use tunerpro with a wideband. If you decide you don't like it, keep the wideband, sell the emulator and get MS.

          The ljet from the 318i has almost zero adjustability and is just plain garbage in my opinion. Assuming the system runs alright, you'll be ok by using a bit larger injectors, and adjusting timing with the distributor, but if you'll never really be able to optimize any upgrades you do to it.

          Comment


            #6
            I believe 2002 cam and dizzy are geared opposite. (e.g. I recall seeing 2 models of each M10 Schrick cam). Make sure to match up what you run.

            Lot's of other mechanical parts are interchangeable, as prev poster said.

            Tom

            v i s i o n a u t i k s

            Comment


              #7
              Which block is stronger and thicker? I have heard it both ways, some people have said the 2.0L block is beefier, but one swore up and down that the e30 318 blocks are significantly stronger, and that they're all he uses in his builds.
              cars beep boop

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by downforce22 View Post
                Random questions here, but I am in the process of putting an engine into a 2002 shell.

                So is the m10 engine from the 318i much different than the 2002? The engine may get injected either from a tii kugelfischer pump or if there is a problem with that, possibly 318i bits.

                How much is interchangeable? Are only the blocks the same?

                Also I may need a starter, would the 318i starter work, or is it different due to the flywheel and transmission?


                Thanks.
                Old 2 liter blocks are stronger. 2 liter cranks are fully counterweighted steel ones, whereas the 71mm 1,8 cranks are not. Mounting points to the front subframe are different (318i vs old block).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Good to know, just as I suspected. The 2002 blocks are probably heavier as well.

                  The main question is will the 318i head bolt to the 2002 block and provide adequate CR and valve to piston clearance? If it does, can you retrofit the fuel injection system, accosiated parts, and ecu to the 2002?
                  318iS Track Rat :nice: www.drive4corners.com
                  '86 325iX 3.1 Stroker Turbo '86 S38B36 325

                  No one makes this car anymore. The government won't allow them, normal people won't buy them. So it's up to us: the freaks, the weirdos, the informed. To buy them, to appreciate them, and most importantly, to drive them.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    No, plan on new pistons to work optimally.

                    Originally posted by SkiFree View Post
                    Pistons should match cylinder head type (some low-compression pistons are interchangeable with diff. head types, never optimal though).
                    ADAMS Autosport

                    Comment


                      #11
                      +1 on getting pistons that match the head, there's nothing wrong with using an older head. If it has the fuel injector bosses in it already, just make or buy some plugs. Same goes with the fuel pump drive for the carb.

                      Plenty of people do the l-jet on their otherwise stock 02. The lack of adjustability really makes me dislike it. I feel the same about the k-fish setup. I own a 2002tii and the tools to adjust the injection system are pretty expensive. Once you start doing upgrades to the motor, the system can no longer provide the right fueling unless you get a custom rebuild ($$$). I think they tend to be rich on the low end and lean in the upper range when it comes to mods.

                      I also noticed nobody commented on the starter, you can use the same one, or upgrade to an s14 or m30 starter. Both are smaller, lighter, and provide more torque than the stock 2002 or 318i starter.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thank you butterson, great info. I heard the same thing about the tii. Even an air filter will make it run rich or lean depending on the restriction it makes versus the stock air box. About the kugelfischer adjustment, I found this the other day while doing some research. Look at the last picture at the bottom of the page:

                        318iS Track Rat :nice: www.drive4corners.com
                        '86 325iX 3.1 Stroker Turbo '86 S38B36 325

                        No one makes this car anymore. The government won't allow them, normal people won't buy them. So it's up to us: the freaks, the weirdos, the informed. To buy them, to appreciate them, and most importantly, to drive them.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by downforce22 View Post
                          Good to know, just as I suspected. The 2002 blocks are probably heavier as well.
                          Yes they are. But a heavy block is better than a cracked block.
                          The main question is will the 318i head bolt to the 2002 block and provide adequate CR and valve to piston clearance? If it does, can you retrofit the fuel injection system, accosiated parts, and ecu to the 2002?
                          318i pistons will not work on a 2 liter and vice versa. Engines w/ 71mm stroke have pistons with "46-47 point something" millimeter compression height. Same figure for 2 liter engines is 42-42,5mm. There are many different heads with different shaped combustion chambers, you will need pistons with the right shaped dome. With flat top pistons your compression will be way too low for naturally aspirated motor.

                          Do a google image search "e21 head m10" "E12 head M10", Tii head etc., you'll see what I'm getting at. I will be using Tii pistons with a TI head or E30 head. I'll have the block shaved if neccessary so the piston top will be 0,5mm over the block, which would give 0,8mm piston-head clearance.
                          Last edited by petrolhead; 02-23-2013, 07:36 AM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            so to fit a s14 crank in e30 with the 2002 bigjugs would be less win?
                            The day I bought my e30, was the day I became sophisticated and classy as fuck.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              What is a bigjug?

                              The s14 crank can be used with s14 rods and custom pistons, and s14 crank damper. You also have to have the timing cover machined to accept the front main seal from the s14 crank. With a 90mm bore you end up with a bit over 2.1l

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