87 325e swapped dme now crank/no start

[ibanez79]

was finally getting somewhere with this car, bought it not running and the interior gutted. Had it all back together and running for the past month but had the typical surging idle occasionally . finally decided to clean out icv, throttle body. i used carb cleaner to spray out icv, used rag sprayed with carb cleaner and wiped out by the butterfly and wiped out the inside of the airbox the intake boot connects to, flap part that leads towards the mass sensor. didn't try to clean by the actual mass sensor. it was running that night and next day after cleaning icv and throttle/intake parts just idle was surging worse after cleaning. normally i could get it to stop the idle surge but i could not after i cleaned it. that's why i decided to swap dme that night. i swapped out my dme for a used dme that was in the trunk of the car that i put a turner chip in it. guy i bought car from said it was a dme he bought awhile back to try to fix idle but never tried it. it was to late to start the car that night to test dme. went to start the following morning and then car would start then immediately die or crank/no start. mostly crank/no start. I'm thinking i did something wrong not just a coincidence of part going out but trying to figure out what/how to test to see what ive caused. im really tired of throwing money blindly guessing at this thing would rather at least spend it wisely on it. i checked to make sure all the hose connections, intake boot and wire connections are back in place correctly. i think im going to go to the part store and get a new batttery(ive charged and jumped that thing a lot since ive had the car the past 6 months, ive not trusted it since i got it) and see if they have a fuel pump relay that would work. other then that im not to sure what to try next. would the car at least start if icv was bad? i figured it would just run bad but start? will it start if icv is unplugged? i tested the 2 prongs on icv and its showing 8.5ohms. thought i read somewhere it needs to be between 9-10

[tomstin]

I've been thinking about this since I first read it yesterday. First, slow down a bit. You made a lot of changes. I would charge the battery versus new one at this point. I multi-meter will be a good investment. As for the fuel pump relay, you can jumper that to test the fuel pump.

However, the best, all in one place, idle document I've found is here: http://www.verrill.com/car/e30_idlefaq.shtml

Take the time to read and understand that article. Again, the multi-meter will be your friend in diagnosing the problem.

The throttle position sensor is often overlooked when chasing idle issues. I would also go back to the base DME and sort it from there. Good luck!

[ibanez79]

i pulled the plugs today and they have fuel on them. i have quite a bit of fuel in my intake boot and it looks like its coming out of my valve cover gasket also. the car will start then die sometimes but it mostly just cranks. im going to get a fuel pressure tester to check that (but plugs have gas on them so im assuming theres pressure) and im going to check for spark (but the occasional two seconds it starts leads me to believe theres spark)

[ibanez79]

thank you for that article you posted. ive not used a multimeter except for minor things but i guess its time for me to learn

[tomstin]

i have quite a bit of fuel in my intake boot and it looks like its coming out of my valve cover gasket also.

Check the fuel pressure regulator at the front of the fuel rail. They can go bad and suck fuel into the intake through the vacuum line.

[ibanez79]

pulled the vacuum line from FPR and intake its completely dry. going to pick up new DME relay and fuel pump relay i ordered. gonna try those first, then test fuel pressure, then try jumper at the fuel pump relay. its pins 30 and 87 for the jumper at fuel pump relay correct? to relive "some" fuel pressure i can just pull fuel pump relay and fuse and try to start the car a few times?

[ibanez79]

later when i jumper the relay will i hear the fuel pump inside car and the one under the car running or will i only hear the inside pump work? haven't tried it yet i was just wondering what to expect

[ibanez79]

so far i replaced dme and fuel pump relay. tested the tps senor which connector is drenched with oil. clicks when opened. meter shows correct readings on opening and on wot. i tested coil with test light...with end on car ground and tip on positive of coil, light lit up with key on...with end on positive of battery junction and tip on negative of coil, light flashed while cranking. tested plug wires with test light they have spark. rented fuel pressure gauge and it was screwed up so managed to get gas everywhere. since gauge was messed up, i took fuel feed and stuck in a water bottle, cranked it for 1 second and got an ounce or 2 of fuel. still only starts for a few seconds then dies, then back to crank/no start. tomorrow gonna go get another fuel tester. and try different plugs, guess i could have fouled them totally out from them getting gas on them. i didn't feel the safest checking the actual plugs for spark with gas all over the place that's why i just stuck the test light up there.

[tomstin]

The E engines have two sensors on the flywheel. One measures engine speed the other is the crank position. They connect to the wiring harness at the back of the valve cover. Have you checked those with a multi meter? New plugs is a good idea. Seems you're getting spark and fuel. Hang in there!

[ibanez79]

haven't used a meter on those yet. i figured the test light would at lest tell me the signal was going thru them. ill meter them today. then try fuel pressure gauge tester and plugs, also going to buy 2 coolant temp sensors the blue and brown one, they don't have the weird looking one with two wires coming from it.. i have new parts coming tomorrow, but I'm hoping to not need them. new icv,afm,tps and fpr. id much rather return them but that's the few things i tried cleaning(besides fpr) before it stopped starting. so if nothing else ill try one new part at a time.

[uturn]

The E engines have two sensors on the flywheel. One measures engine speed the other is the crank position. They connect to the wiring harness at the back of the valve cover. Have you checked those with a multi meter? New plugs is a good idea. Seems you're getting spark and fuel. Hang in there!

My first e30 was a 325e. The magnet fell out of the flywheel. Was lucky it was still in the bell housing, tapped it back into the flywheel and was able to get the car started and moved.

[ibanez79]

not my issue but for some reason my fuel pump relay is on the right side instead of the middle like its supposed to be. i checked the wiring under relay and someone switched places with the oxygen sensor and fuel pump relay positions. i couldn't figure out why i wasn't getting power on pin 30 so i flipped it around and noticed its switched from everything ive read online. main relay is on left, o2 sensor middle and fuel pump relay on the right. when i tested the fuel pressure it looks like I'm only getting about 10 psi when jumping the fuel pump relay and turning key to on. very well could be a bad test gauge, the first one i rented was messed up/broken so this one might be also. if i pull the power connector from the in-tank pump will that kill the power to the pump on the outside also? trying to figure out which one isn't working. I'm pretty sure i hear the in tank pump buzzing when i jump fuel pump relay but i cant tell if the outside pump near the filter is buzzing or if its just the sound from the in-tank pump. i really didn't want to change the outside pump and filter, the rubber/metal lines are SO bad there's no way there not going to break in the process, there not leaking yet, well until i touch them lol. I'm going to order the outside pump, filter and that preformed u shaped fuel hose that connects them and try that next week. i haven't tried any of the new parts I've gotten until i get decent fuel pressure. are the cps sensor and the speed sensor the same part number for my 87 325e? those aren't the problem but since I'm ordering parts i might as well get those also in case i need to rule them out or just hold onto them until i need them. how do i disconnect them at the metal bracket under the intake? i can disconnect the wiring clip but if/when i go to replace the sensor i couldn't get sensor wire to slide out of the bracket. is it just rust holding it, or is there a trick to it? is the right part for my outside pump near the filter "bosch 69418"? cant tell if it has too high of pressure or if its the right one. sites have 2 different versions. sorry for all the questions

[tomstin]

Crank and speed sensors (pulse generators in BMW speak) are both the same part number. Carefully replace them one at a time so you don't get them reversed.

Disconnecting the power wire to either pump should NOT prevent the other pump from running as they are in parallel versus series.

If you don't have wiring diagrams go here: http://wedophones.com/Manuals/BMW/

If you are not familiar with reading wiring diagrams the beginning of those documents are VERY good. Take the time to read "How to use this manual".

Once you get this beast started, replacing the fuel hoses in CRITICAL. I prefer the metric hoses from the online houses versus the SAE sizes in the local parts stores. Also prefer crimp clamps over screw clamps.

[ibanez79]

thank you for the answers about the sensors, pump wiring and lines. the brake lines i was going to order from fcp euro there preformed and not too expensive(im assuming there oem sizes). hopefully ill have an update/progress after this Sunday. i work at the post office so its long hours during this month with everyone mailing gifts.

[ibanez79]

unplugged the in-tank fuel pump power connecter and heard no sound from the pump by the rear wheel when jumping the fuel pump relay. i swapped the fuel pump and filter and was able to get the car to start and stay running. i only ran it for about 5-10 minutes because i got a late start and was in the garage, and with no muffler didn't want to piss the neighbors off. its still not running right from me attempting to clean icv, maf sensor and stuff (so obviously i caused some issues) but the fuel pump was indeed the main issue for the no start. its weird that there were no indicators the pump was on its way out and it decided to quit after cleaning those parts and swapping dme. swapping the pump was a lot more of a pain then i had thought it would be. the rubber grommets on the 3 bolts holding the pump bracket (part#61211243530) were the main problem i had. i ended up having to cut them thru the center with a utility knife, they were not coming off any other way. pb blaster soaking for an hour was no help for those bolts to let loose, they were rusted/seized so the rubber just turned. after i got the pump out i had to drill out the remainder of the bolts/rubber up under the car. if anyone is going to swap one, spraying the 3 pump bracket bolts with wd40/pb blaster a few times a day for a couple days may help free them up. it didn't work for me, but mine were really bad and had been on there for what looked like forever. next Sunday I'm going to try a few of the parts i got (to replace what i attempted to clean) and see if that gets it back to running decent. ill update then. thank you for the help you have given me so far. i really appreciate your time. im sure i will have more questions next week after i try these new parts.