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17lb injectors worth the swap for mpgs

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    #16
    lol - you have NFC.

    narrowbands are still used to this day. The are extremely accurate at stoich. the late 1.3 systems use the same 4 wire narrowbands that BMW used for the E36. Even the S54 uses narrowbands.

    that article describes the short term trim. the long term trim is based on the short term trim - if the short term trim gets too large, the ECU will start to adjust the long term until the short term trim gets closer to zero.
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      #17
      I see talk. I see no proof.

      Status: HG repair. 488wtq though!

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        #18
        I'm not going to argue with you about it or waste my time proving something to you that you don't have any idea about.
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          #19
          oooooooooooooooooooooooooookay.

          Status: HG repair. 488wtq though!

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            #20
            im gonna be new in here sorry. so i have a Dinan chip, but if you(Nando) say the ECU continually changes, is the chip a waste, in-respect to tuning? granted it does bump up my revs.

            if you have any links to good reading about motronic 1.3, id like to learn.
            Much wow
            I hate 4 doors

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              #21
              Originally posted by Cabriolet View Post
              im gonna be new in here sorry. so i have a Dinan chip, but if you(Nando) say the ECU continually changes, is the chip a waste, in-respect to tuning? granted it does bump up my revs.

              if you have any links to good reading about motronic 1.3, id like to learn.
              I'm sure nando will undo whatever I say but I'll try anywho. The stock ECU has a static spark map. The ecu will compensate (a little) for fuel. The power produced by an engine is directly related to the spark map. The dinan chip will remap the spark map and thus give you more power and the higher rpms. Shoving bigger injectors in your car alone will give you no advantage what so ever.

              Status: HG repair. 488wtq though!

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                #22
                Motronic 1.3 doesn't have a knock sensor or advanced stuff like ion sensing so it's not going to do anything to the spark map (there's no closed loop spark trim).

                all the ECU is going to do is target the base fuel map. Whether Dinan changed that I don't know, but if they did, it's still going to target it regardless of injector size.
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                  #23
                  also, yoshi, yes you are in fact wrong.

                  Bosch Motronic 1.1/1.3 BMW Copyright Equiptech

                  Adaptive function

                  The ECU is adaptive to changing engine operating characteristics and constantly monitors the data from the various sensors (ie MAP, ATS, CTS and TPS). As the engine or its components wear, the ECU reacts to new circumstances by adopting the changed values as a correction to the basic Map.

                  When the adaptive map is used in conjunction with the OS, Motronic is able to respond much more quickly and retain tighter control over the changing gases in the exhaust system. During closed loop operation the basic injection value is determined by the values stored in the map for a specific rpm and load. If the basic injection value causes exhaust emissions outside of the Lambda value (ie 0.98 to 1.04 AFR) the mixture would be too rich or too lean and the OS would signal Motronic which in turn will correct the mixture. However, this response takes a little time and so Motronic learns a correction value and adds this 'Adaptive' values to the basic map. From now on, under most operating conditions, the emissions will be very close to Lambda and so, after reference to the OS signal, the ECU will only need to make small corrections to keep it that way.

                  Adaption and correction of the map occurs during the following engine operations.

                  CFSV operation
                  ISCV operation
                  Idle mixture adjustment
                  part load mixture adjustment

                  Operation of the CFSV introduces a combustible mixture to the engine that is compensated for by the fuel evaporation adaptive correction values after detection by the OS..
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                    #24
                    Hey nando, the larger injectors would change the AFR at WOT though, correct? I was under the impression the WOT fuel and spark maps were fixed.
                    Lorin


                    Originally posted by slammin.e28
                    The M30 is God's engine.

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                      #25
                      I am wrong. Yay.

                      Status: HG repair. 488wtq though!

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                        #26
                        WOT don't operate in closed loop (real time O2 correction) but from my understanding, the long term trim still applies.

                        When I dynoed my stroker with 19# injectors, the AFR's were lean like they were stock (~14s).

                        the SpecE30 guys have talked about ways of tricking the ECU to run richer than ~14 at full load, but after a short time it always returns to the stock programmed AFR targets, even at WOT.
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                          #27
                          What if you dont run the 02 sensor?
                          Lorin


                          Originally posted by slammin.e28
                          The M30 is God's engine.

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                            #28
                            then you don't want to mess with the injector size, it will always run hopelessly rich. also, as the engine ages and parts wear, it won't be able to compensate.
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                              #29
                              I run my mid 80's 911 (Motronic) with the 02 sensor unplugged and it defaults to maximum trim which is 10% richer. I have a wideband in the car and it really doesn't make that much of a difference, like less than a point . The car actually feels better and the AFRs are in the 13s more often than 14s before.

                              Is the E30 Motronic different that it would run "hopelessly rich"?
                              Lorin


                              Originally posted by slammin.e28
                              The M30 is God's engine.

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                                #30
                                not with stock injectors, but you can't change the injector size and expect it to run the same with no O2 feedback.

                                the specE30 guys aren't allowed to unplug the O2
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