Accusump plumbing

[TobyB]

For those who have run one, how did you plumb it?
I'm running the stock is oil cooler...

Thanks,

t

[Keith M]

Is this the same Toby that races a green 2002?
Sorry, no help on the accusump

[Farbin Kaiber]

Nice sig. Maybe I can catch janderson.

[TobyB]

Is this the same Toby

Last I looked... hey, it's me!
Keith, WHERE is your (or Jen's, or both)
Pro3 car???? It's past time!

Yeah, the 2002 is horrifically time- intensive, and so

(wait for it, this is TRULY racer logic)

since I don't have time to race one car, I think I'll build
another!
Actually, it's going pretty well- I've got a caged
shell, a donor motor and driveline, and am starting to make
2 into one. And it's so FAST, as I'm not having to make 2 out
of 3 parts out of billet... you just clean a stock part and bolt it on!

Goal is to have a running car by the first Seattle race, and
a list of things to do to be competitive by the end of the season.

And YES, I'm going to run an Accucsump, even though no- one else does
just because if I didn't on the M10, I had crank problems. Even
WITH baffles, oiling mods, scrapers and fuzzy logic....

heh

t

[Keith M]

You are nuts! Jen and I divorced 4 years ago. My car at the time was a cage away from racing but I never finished it. Still ok on the street but not for long stretches. I did see you at the Cascade endurance race but you were running across the paddock so I just let you be. I assume you are going to be running Pro3 with the e30 and ITE with the 2002?

[TobyB]

Ah, sorry to hear that.

Yeah, Pro3 and the 2002 sits, for now-
I figure, if I get an itch to work on it, then I will. But for years,
every time I 'improved' it it went slower, and that got frustrating.

t

[jlevie]

Last I looked... hey, it's me!
Keith, WHERE is your (or Jen's, or both)
Pro3 car???? It's past time!

Yeah, the 2002 is horrifically time- intensive, and so

(wait for it, this is TRULY racer logic)

since I don't have time to race one car, I think I'll build
another!
Actually, it's going pretty well- I've got a caged
shell, a donor motor and driveline, and am starting to make
2 into one. And it's so FAST, as I'm not having to make 2 out
of 3 parts out of billet... you just clean a stock part and bolt it on!

Goal is to have a running car by the first Seattle race, and
a list of things to do to be competitive by the end of the season.

And YES, I'm going to run an Accucsump, even though no- one else does
just because if I didn't on the M10, I had crank problems. Even
WITH baffles, oiling mods, scrapers and fuzzy logic....

Yep, that's racer logic!

The M10 may have had problems, but an M20 with a baffled pan and crank scraper won't if the pump and pressure relief vale are good and the engine isn't seriously worn.

I have a fast response pressure sensor and an IQ3 dash in my Spec E30. So I have a full record of oil pressure throughout each race. I've never seen a worrisome drop in oil pressure in the data logs. This is a build engine with tight tolerances, a shimmed OPR, and a new pump. I have a Paul Poore baffled oil pan and an IJ crank scraper. The PP pan increases the system capacity by about 2qt, which helps on long straights where the head fills with oil.

In my opinion, an Accusump just complicates the system unnecessarily. The right fix is the baffled pan and crank scraper.

[Sagaris]

In my opinion, an Accusump just complicates the system unnecessarily. The right fix is the baffled pan and crank scraper.

I am just wondering how you keep the oil pan sealed with this sandwiched in between it. http://www.tcmotorsports-store.net/m...an-baff20.html

2 gaskets?

[Keith M]

^2 gaskets is how I did mine.

[jlevie]

I am just wondering how you keep the oil pan sealed with this sandwiched in between it. http://www.tcmotorsports-store.net/m...an-baff20.html

2 gaskets?

You can use two gaskets or you can use silicone and dispense with the gasket(s). I've done it both ways and have come to prefer the silicone method. I use the gray stuff (which gets hard) between the scraper and block and the blue stuff (which doesn't get hard) between the pan and scraper. If you ever need to change the pan you can separate (with a sharpened putty knife) the pan from the scraper w/o disturbing the seal between the scraper and block.

[Keith M]

^^That how I should have done mine.

[TobyB]

In my opinion, an Accusump just complicates the system unnecessarily.

You're probably right. What do you use for a baffle? <oops, right, you have a custom pan. That's
not legal in Pro3>
Yeah, baffle and scraper are all ready to go in...

I dicked around with the 2002 EP M10 pan and got it pretty good- until I went to the cantilevers, and then
it truly went bad. So the Accusump was a band- aid until going to dry sump... which I haven't done yet.
If you want the ultimate solution, it is, of course, the dry sump. Anything ELSE is just a
band- aid <heh- too bad it's not legal for either of us, huh?>

In the E30, I just don't want to think about it. It's a racing appliance, not a development hack...
and I have the sump already.

t

[jlevie]

You're probably right. What do you use for a baffle? <oops, right, you have a custom pan. That's
not legal in Pro3>
Yeah, baffle and scraper are all ready to go in...

I'm not familiar with the Pro3 rules. But Metric Mechanic offers a standard pan that has had baffles added.

[Keith M]

Jen's e36 oil pressure dropped in long left hand corners (T6 at PIR and T2 at Spokane). I bought a Turner baffle and welded it in myself. Welding on cast aluminum is a bit tricky but it can be done. I'm sure there is a similar baffle available for the m20 motors or you can buy one with it already installed. What are the other 50 (?) + pro3 cars running?

[TobyB]

Everyone swears by a generic baffle... the Ireland one is supposed to be fine.

Ok, I looked at it pretty carefully yesterday- you've convinced me. I'll add the
plumbing bits to stick an accusump in if it turns out I need one, but I'm going to try to
use just a scraper and a baffle.

And a really good, really big oil pressure gauge!

So what convinced me is that the oil cooler sees unfiltered oil.
To keep an accusump alive, it kinda wants filtered oil,
and there's no easy way to loop that through the check valve.
For a street car that isn't so worried about airlocking the pump,
it would be easy enough to modify the hold- down bolt on the
thermostat adaptor, and not run the check valve. But to get the valve
in, the stock adaptor is a pain. The clean way would be to remote
the whole mess, and run an external filter, thermostat and cooler.
But, Jim, as you say, that's getting to be a LOT of complexity for a mostly-
stock output motor. With a true race engine, ditching the thermostat would be
fine- the M10 never had one, and it never overcooled- but again, this isn't
exactly a race motor. Sheesh, it has a jackshaft, even...

Anyway, I'll see how it goes w/o the sump. Turns out we CAN modify the pan-
thanks for motivating me to read the rules again, Jim-
so that wold probably be the next order of business IF the baffle turns out to fail.

This IS meant to be a racing appliance!

t