NEED HELP: 19lbs injectors with ebay 173 ecu tuner chip for 19lbs(supposedly)

[Maloney]

son of a bitch! i was on the last sentence of making this thread and i went to erase a word and the flippin backspace bar brought me back like 5 pages on my browser and i lost everything!!! i cant stand that shit!!
sometimes you get lucky and you go forward again and ur page of writing is still there... thats a great feeling. but wasnt so lucky this time. BS
sigh... i dont want to rewrite this so excuse my vagueness.


ran 19lbs injectors on stock 173 ecu for a whole month. (couldnt decide on osrich or cheap chip lol, and procrastinated hella as usual)

it worked but EVERY time i started the car i had to hold the rpms up around 2 grand until the ecu taught itself how to run properly. after a while it would lean out and the enigne light came on. then the car idle on its own and ran and drove properly.
I had to do this everytime i sarted the car.

finally got sick of it and bought a tuner chip on ebay.
before buying i asked the seller if it would work with 19lbs injectors, hes saind NO but he had one that would, I said ok great what do i do to get it, he said send me a message after the buy, I did this, then followed up 2 days later before it said shipped, told him to confirm that he got my message
and he replied that he did indeed get my message...

installed chip last night. went to start it and it was the same shit... had to wait 2mins for it to learn how to run, then after engine light came on, it was good to go.
if feels a lot better than before! BUT... wtf

ive started it 5 times since the chip has been installed and it has to learn everytime.


questions:

how long does the montronic take to learn and REMEMBER a proper tune or is this even necessary? I have not tried it with the new chip... but with 19lbs and the stock chip i drove the car for 20mins and then let it idle for like 45mins... hoping it would save the tun it learned NOPE.

i asked the ebay dude whats going on and no response as of yet.


what do you think? think he messed up and sent a chip for stock injectors?


PS
the first time i started the car with 19lbs's on the stock chip it ran HORRIBLE, pissed white smoke:o out of the tail pipe and took like 5mins to lean out and run correctly.

this didnt happen with the new chip... the first time.

but i just got home from work, went inside for a minute, came back out to go to the store, started the car and it did as describe above but seemingly worse.
i didnt even let it come back to normal... after 1 minute i shut it off cuz i was pissed.

anything ideas?

the white smoke was scary i will admit... but the m20 is a beast so i ran with it. I havent herd of an engine runin so rich that is smoked white... but i am assuming this is possible? sure smelt rich and not sweet!
the car runs fine still and it doesnt smoke at all once it learns a proper tune.

thanks guys

[sayed ali]

Did you adjust you afm yet? I ran 19lb injectors without any chip and m30 afm, it works just fine ...

[jlevie]

19lb injectors are outside of the range that a stock chip can accommodate, I believe. The DME can learn an acceptable fuel trim for 17lb injectors if everything else in the engine and management system is working correctly. For the engine to run correctly with 19lb injectors you need a good chip tuned for those injectors. Either you didn't get a good chip or the engine had other problems from the beginning. Get a chip from a reputable source.

Other than a slight increase in fuel mileage from the 4-pintle design of later injectors, there is really no advantage to larger injectors. The stock injectors are more than enough for a stock engine or one with bolt on mods. Only if you significantly increase the mass flow through the engine by internal engine work or forced induction will larger injectors be required. A chip and stock injectors will give the same result.

[Maloney]

Did you adjust you afm yet? I ran 19lb injectors without any chip and m30 afm, it works just fine ...

adjust it how? I have been reading that you are not to touch the spring and what not. Also have been reading that the M30 AFM is a direct swap and also does not need any adjustment.
I have a M30 AFM i just got and am about to install but i do not see how this is going to address the problem at all. please fill me in if i am missing something here :?

[Maloney]

19lb injectors are outside of the range that a stock chip can accommodate, I believe. The DME can learn an acceptable fuel trim for 17lb injectors if everything else in the engine and management system is working correctly. For the engine to run correctly with 19lb injectors you need a good chip tuned for those injectors. Either you didn't get a good chip or the engine had other problems from the beginning. Get a chip from a reputable source.

Other than a slight increase in fuel mileage from the 4-pintle design of later injectors, there is really no advantage to larger injectors. The stock injectors are more than enough for a stock engine or one with bolt on mods. Only if you significantly increase the mass flow through the engine by internal engine work or forced induction will larger injectors be required. A chip and stock injectors will give the same result.

My reasoning for going to 19lbs is because i plan on turboing the car a little later on, and from what i was reading... 19lbs worked with stock ecu. there was conflicting information on this subject but i found a couple of guys who did it and claimed it worked fine so i went for it.

the ebay guy swears up and down he sent the correct chip for 19lbs injectors. and i believe him. then his last reply was as follows:
"Sounds like the chip isn't the problem but the injectors, you might need to take your car to a tuner to adjust your car to fit the injectors"

hmm how could there be a "problem" with the injectors. they tick and spit fuel like fuel injectors do lol.
MAYBE... just maybe... i gots 22lbs injectors?? but would that small of a difference between 19lbs and 22lbs really cause this behavior when a 19lbs chip is installed?

***THIS***
"or the engine had other problems from the beginning."

what do you think could have been wrong from the beginning?

I guess i should say i bought this car with a BAD "stumble" that came and went, fuel filter fixed it. after that however...
before any changes where made to this car(besides new filter) it had a check engine light. the stomp test revealed that it was lambardo system issue. check light still flashing the car ran really well for about a week or so and then developed a good misfire . I noticed cylinder 4 was the issue by pulling plug wires.
after testing the wires then even swaping the cylinder 4 wire with cylinder 5's wire to be sure it wasnt 4's wire... i decided it must be the injector.
(no.... knocking the shit out of the injector with an extension and hammer did not change anything)
so thats where i am at.

what problem could there have been BEFORE to just now cause a problem after injectors have been installed? FPR the thing wouldn't run...

I will be digging into it more this weekend
Thanks for the iput guys

[MaksV]

Post the part number on the injectors and I will tell you exactly what you have.

Maksim

[jlevie]

[quote=Maloney]I guess i should say i bought this car with a BAD "stumble" that came and went, fuel filter fixed it. after that however...
before any changes where made to this car(besides new filter) it had a check engine light. the stomp test revealed that it was lambardo system issue. check light still flashing the car ran really well for about a week or so and then developed a good misfire . I noticed cylinder 4 was the issue by pulling plug wires.
after testing the wires then even swaping the cylinder 4 wire with cylinder 5's wire to be sure it wasnt 4's wire... i decided it must be the injector.
(no.... knocking the shit out of the injector with an extension and hammer did not change anything)
so thats where i am at.

what problem could there have been BEFORE to just now cause a problem after injectors have been installed? FPR the thing wouldn't run...[quote]
I think you meant Lamba fault, which can be the result of an upset in the A/F ratio and/or a bad O2 sensor.

What else could be wrong? Bad rings on one or more cylinders or bent or burned valves come readily to mind. If you had purchased new 19lb injectors, which I really doubt, one would tend to exonerate the injectors. But I'll bet that you bought used ones and did not have them cleaned, rebuilt, and flow tested. You could have done that with the original injectors for the same cost.

The time to go to larger injectors would be when you put the turbo on the engine. They simply aren't needed before that.

[Maloney]

Post the part number on the injectors and I will tell you exactly what you have.

Maksim

shoot... if i remember correctly the part number appeared to be scraped off of every injector!! its a trip...
I will look though.
They are black with a green plastic sleeve near the tip. Supposedly from a 4.6l gt mustang engine.
I bought all 8 from the guy, however two had Black sleeves near the tip. those two looked rough so i did not use them, but they did indeed have a part number on them.

i am actually positive the long series of number is scraped off all the ones im using in the car. for whatever reason....
let me see what i can get off of them if anything

[MaksV]

If i remember correctly those are actually GM injectors, the green sleeve is a 21# and red is a 24 or 25# but I would need a PN to be sure.

Do they look like this:

[Maloney]

[QUOTE=jlevie;3330924][quote=Maloney]I guess i should say i bought this car with a BAD "stumble" that came and went, fuel filter fixed it. after that however...
before any changes where made to this car(besides new filter) it had a check engine light. the stomp test revealed that it was lambardo system issue. check light still flashing the car ran really well for about a week or so and then developed a good misfire . I noticed cylinder 4 was the issue by pulling plug wires.
after testing the wires then even swaping the cylinder 4 wire with cylinder 5's wire to be sure it wasnt 4's wire... i decided it must be the injector.
(no.... knocking the shit out of the injector with an extension and hammer did not change anything)
so thats where i am at.

what problem could there have been BEFORE to just now cause a problem after injectors have been installed? FPR the thing wouldn't run...

I think you meant Lamba fault, which can be the result of an upset in the A/F ratio and/or a bad O2 sensor.

What else could be wrong? Bad rings on one or more cylinders or bent or burned valves come readily to mind. If you had purchased new 19lb injectors, which I really doubt, one would tend to exonerate the injectors. But I'll bet that you bought used ones and did not have them cleaned, rebuilt, and flow tested. You could have done that with the original injectors for the same cost.

The time to go to larger injectors would be when you put the turbo on the engine. They simply aren't needed before that.

your right i did buy them used but they looked real clean and i cleaned them with brake cleaner and did indeed replace the filters.

could a almost shot o2 sensor be the cause of this? It did seem to run rich before with the old injectors...

dont scare me!! it runs too strong to have major engine problems... or so it seems :)


bad o2 and before with stock injectors it was just running on a limp mode map? now it doesnt know what to do and sometimes the o2 reads and adjust and other times it doesnt?

thanks for the help guys. sorry im kinda busy with other shit but i do want to get this figured out and certainly you are helping

[Maloney]

If i remember correctly those are actually GM injectors, the green sleeve is a 21# and red is a 24 or 25# but I would need a PN to be sure.

Do they look like this:

they look exactly like this but the silver part is about 1/8 inch higher up into the black... if that makes sense.
and the little sleeve by the brown o-ring is Green...

this one has part # A 3094 17095004

the part number on the ones installed are straight up scrapped off...

[kamotors]

it used to take my car about 1 hour to learn the new injectors after I reset my battery. and even when it had learned throttle response when cold was very poor. also rich smoke is supposed to be black, white is usually caused by condensation or water vapor.

the issue was fixed when I ditched my AFM all together for a MAF

[Maloney]

it used to take my car about 1 hour to learn the new injectors after I reset my battery. and even when it had learned throttle response when cold was very poor. also rich smoke is supposed to be black, white is usually caused by condensation or water vapor.

the issue was fixed when I ditched my AFM all together for a MAF

yeah mine has to learn every single time...
how long did it take for the car to remember the tune? or is it instant?

maf conversion would be nice... not ready yet, got a project ahead of her.
I take it you did mega squirt?

[James Crivellone]

2 Things

1) Dump GM injectors, they are garbage, grab 19lb Bosch yellows (wrecking yard, 735il, there yah go)
2) Throw the eBay chip away as you have no idea what tune is on there. Its ripped off from someone and you don't really know the specs. MarkD, Conforti/Turner, etc is the way to go.

[vpilarrt]

Not to hijack this thread (though I guess I am) but I have the MarkD chip that he states in his website is for 17 or 19# injectors (93 octane). My car i('89 325i) s OEM other than that. Is there any advantage to running 19s vs 17s?