No start...Again.

[BoxDriver86]

1986 325es - stock.

I thought the car was only not starting when it rained...I could crank it for ages and it would eventually start. I replaced the cap and things were fine.

Now fast forward two weeks and the car just cranks and cranks. It will get to the point where it starts to catch, but won't start.

I got angry, hooked up some jumper cables and kept cranking until the car finally started. It idles great. If I rev it, it will nearly stall at lower rpms, but smooth out past 2k. If I drive it, it will intermittently bog down or stall out when first starting out. If I rev it up, I can get it to move fine.

There are occasional misses throughout the rpm band. If I try to restart within 3-5 minutes it will fire right up. If it sits longer, it will crank forever before starting. Overnight, it will likely kill the battery before starting if I keep cranking.

Smoke test revealed a minor leak at the fpr hookup. Replaced the hose and we're good there.

All Bentley tests check out sans fuel pressure since I dont have a guage.

My guess is in tank pump isnt all there any more. Jumpering the fuel pump relay has both pumps on but something is still not right.


Any takers? I have to go out of town for work and would rather take the e30.

As always, thanks in advance.

[e30mpg]

cold start injector?

[paperplane94]

How are the plugs?

[BoxDriver86]

cold start injector?

Operating normally...it was my thought too.

How are the plugs?

NGK replaced not long ago, would they really cause a no start? I can see the rough running but the starting issue?

[jlevie]

Check the rail fuel pressure, replace the distributor, ignition wires, install a fresh set of NGK ZGR5A plugs, adjust the valves, and replace the O2 sensor. Then test the cold start temperature and time/temperature sensors. I'd also check the AFM for a bad spot at the low end.

[terminale30]

When cranking, do you have spark?...

Mine did almost the same ( http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=274773 ) and it was thermo time switch., If you have spark, Try the starter fluid trick in referenced thread to see if its a fuel delivery issue.

With old plugs, or cheap plugs, mine would bog at low rpms and start poorly too (tho not at hard as you describe)

[BoxDriver86]

Spark seems to be fine.

I tried the starter fluid trick with no luck.
Here's a link to the video of how it behaves once it gets started.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcbOk8ABnk4&feature=youtu.be

I want to add that the car is parked on a hill with the front end facing uphill normally. Not sure if that is at all relevant.

[terminale30]

oddly enough, I'm having some wet start issues with my 85 325es. I fixed the cold start issue (above referenced thread), but my wet start issue remains. Thursday night we had rain. friday AM, the rain let up, but car wouldn't start. I put a small ceramic space heater over the distributor area to dry that area out. It didn't make a difference. so I'm moved the heater under the car and aimed it at the two crank reference sensors.. I like to be methodical and only change one thing at a time, but I was impatient and replaced the plugs while the heater ran under the car. Then.. it started instantly. was it the plugs? the sensors? or both? or the dist. cap??

It is supposed to rain here all week, so I'll know soon enough if it was the plugs. I'd get spark on #1, and I figure if its a bad dist cap, then with spark on #1 I'd at least get a sputter...

I'll add that prior to replacing the plugs, mine wanted to bog and stutter at low rpms a bit (but never really stall out). new plugs cleared that up.

I've never replaced the cap/rotor or wires, I probably need to do that.


as for your case: if you have spark and the timing is right, and no fuel, then the starter fluid into the vacuum port should start the engine. since that doesn't work: are the plugs gas fouled? is it running too rich? If not gas fouled, and starter fluid doesn't do trick, then maybe fuel is ok and its back to ignition. maybe you have spark, but its ill-timed?

[BoxDriver86]

You know I was certain that it was moisture causing my car to not start. It seemed like it only happened after it rained. I pulled the cap and noticed green buildup on the contacts. I decided since I hadn't replaced the cap that must be my issue. I replaced the both the reference sensors under the car during another no start a little over a year ago so I'm fairly certain they are fine...

...unless the leak in my transmission has caused some buildup down there...may have to check it out when I get home.

Although I hear both pumps working, I am leaning towards replacing them both (since I haven't done it and I alone have put over 200K miles on this car) and probably the FPR as well (since it came from a junkyard car).

With an M50 swap coming up very soon I think it may be time to take care of those. I'll get the pumps installed and report back.

[terminale30]

If you were not getting gas to the fuel rail, wouldn't starter fluid at least get the engine to stutter and start a bit?

[BoxDriver86]

If you were not getting gas to the fuel rail, wouldn't starter fluid at least get the engine to stutter and start a bit?

It would. I just jumpered the relay and both pumps fired up just fine. With the obscene amount of fuel I smell and confirmation that all injectors are working, I am starting to think it is spark related.

That being said, I just ran the tests on my ignition coil as recommended in the Bentley. The secondary measurement should read .5 and mine is coming up at 1.

Would a coil really cause this problem?

[BoxDriver86]

So this just got really interesting...

Came home from a business trip and after checking here, I decided to go futz with the car. The battery was near dead so I jumped it with my other car and got it running with a little less effort (maybe 10 tries vs. the previous 30 or 40). The car was idling fine, no miss under acceleration, etc. Why it started sooner? Could be because it was on the flat in the garage, could be dumb luck.

Here's where it gets interesting:

I had the ECU cover in the glove box off since I was planning on running the diagnostics on the ECU connector again. While the car was running, I bumped the wires that connect to the ECU and the idle jumped up. I pinched the harness near where the tape covers and it did it again. I reached back to the connector that hangs below the ICM and again the idle jumped.

Now, the diagnostic tests showed no continuity for the main ground. In addition, the first time I checked the other ground I had voltage. The second time, no voltage. I am exhausted so I am not going any further on this, but I thought I would post up in hopes that someone may have had similar experiences. I am going to open up the tape on the harness and see what I come up with.

Funny thing about showing no voltage or continuity: I plugged it back in, turned the key and the car fired right up with no issue. I'm pretty baffled at this point.

Main concern here is that I want to fix anything that may hinder a starting issue after my M50 swap, in addition to the fact that all I have is the motor and I need to start sourcing parts - therefore meaning I need this car to drive. My other car is definitely not meant to be daily driven.

[BoxDriver86]

Dropped the car off at a local shop this morning.

After about 10-15 tries at cranking for about 5-6 seconds each, it fired right up.

It idled fine, revved perfectly and felt great going to the shop.

I'll let you know what the guy finds out. His immediate impression was the engine has compression issues?

[terminale30]

Update on my 86 325: 3 days in a row of rain. for a few months that has meant extremely hard start mornings for my eta ( 4-5 minutes of cranking!). 3 days since I installed new plugs, 3 days of instant starts.